Is Your Cue Right For You? Does Professional Instruction Pay Off? How Would You Know?

In what world is 44 degrees a wedge? Holy cow, the last time I did clubfitting, 45 deg. was a 9 iron. (and that was on the strong side). I guess if you take a 6 iron and put an "8" on the sole, you can sell lots of clubs.
Rant aside, it sure looks like your son has a lot of natural talent when it comes to golf. I wish him well.
Lofts are different today. 3 irons aren’t included in iron sets any more. Rescue or Hybrud have taken over for long irons, even 4 irons. My son is able to launch his 4 about 225-230 but is not consistent. I out of 4 swing, sometime 1 out of is bladed but with hybrids, everything gets up in the air. The question becimes flight trajectory, spin rate and descent angle. Pitching wedge lofts will vary with manufacturers but the standard is 44 to 48 degrees.

In iron sets, there will be blades, player distance and cavity back irons. In wedges, it whatever the manufacturer decides but Titleist Volkey wedges seem to be the best and when I played golf, it was Cleveland. Clubs have changed in composition, weighting and lofts in different brands.

But imagine have 5 wedges in your bag that are 4 degrees apart. That is hard to do with a 14 club limit so counting your putter, it leaves only 9 clubs for all of your woods and other irons. It only works well if you seldom have to hit ant mid-iron, except maybe on a par 3. Griping down an inch on the grip will reduce distance by 5-10 yards and/ or a 1/2 swing or 3/4 swing, counting the 9 iron, you have 6 short irins and a variety of ways to hit them for distance and accuracy. That’s just a game most of us never get to experience but it sure will be fun to watch develop and unfold. .
 
Why 19 ozs?
I've shot with many weight cues. My Meucci is an 18oz, 12mm shaft cue. My first Joss I asked for a 21 oz 12.5mm shaft because I hadn't measure the Meucci shaft. I prefer a 19, 19.5 oz cue, and will adjust to the 12.5mm. My cue being built is going to be between 19.25-19.5oz 12.5mm. I don't like the lighter weights, taper has never mattered for me. I am a short statured American (see my profile photo).
 
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Being fitted for a pool cue would be difficult to me. It would be like going to the optometrist when he says number 1 or number 2, and you don’t really see a difference. After years of playing and dozens of cues, I had a general idea, but until I found THE CUE, I was never positive. The difference was slight but made a big impression. After narrowing it down to a specific type, it was just fine tuning I guess. Basically I favored Josswest, Pechauer, Schon, type cues, 19 - 19:5 oz. When I got my second Runde Schon, the balance was a little more forward, and it felt lighter than its 19 oz. The only thing I noticed was my speed control playing position after the shot got more precise. In reality, it could be all in my head, but that doesn’t matter,, because it works. Had I tried dozens of cues all at once and tried to select the perfect one, as I was learning, I would have been confused and clueless. Just my old man thoughts.
 
Quite the question, er uh questions. So yes my cue is right for me. I did pay for professional lessons and it paid off. Well I know from the results.
My cue is a Joss East made for Cole Dixon by Danny Jane's. Cole was my main source for knowledge on pool cues. Cole's sensitivity regarding the hit and feel of the cue was very discerning. His statements indicated that 2 cues made by the same maker and to the same specs could be hugely different to him. 🤷‍♂️
He spoke of the different cues he would prefer for different games. The most obvious being for pool or Billiards or Snooker.
For straight pool where short precision shape was rewarded a stiffer hitting cue was good. When playing 9 ball there was a lot more distance and multiple rail paths required, so a cue with more flex was prefered. His explanation compared the cue to the pole used for pole vaulting. While the flex is on a smaller almost microscopic scale it is a factor. The taper and joint and ferrule and tip all add up to give a unique hit and feel.
Bill Stroud Joss West cues with an ivory joint and ferrule have a unique feel. I shoot with a Joss East cue made for Cole in the 80s. It's stainless joint and ivory ferrule with a pro taper and 19 Oz.
Soooo when solicitation of opinion on a internet forum, uh let's just say consider the source.
 
I sense you are not young when it comes to pool. I am basing that on you used a term that most players did back in the day referring to Dan Janes as Joss East. And as you know, there was never a cue maker using the name Joss East.

However, when Bill Stroud and Dan Janes parted ways, Bill wanted to preserve his association with Joss Cues and so
he asked Dan if he could refer to his cue making business as Joss West. Dan & Bill were pals so Dan said it was fine.

So that is how Joss West got started but Dan never changed his business name to Joss East because Bill started Joss
West. It started as Joss Cues & has remained that way but players would refer to Bill & Dan as Joss West & Joss East.

Joss East was just a nickname reference because pool players are dumb critters. If there was a cue maker that worked at Joss and he strarted his own business called Joss West, well, then in their way of thinking, the other Joss must be Joss East since Colorado and Maryland were western and eastern states. It made sense but it was just a fabrication.
 
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the feel is after the hit so means nothing except for the mental aspect of it. and if that affects your game then it is important to get that part right.
same with a golf putter. unless something is wrong with it. as can be proven by the diversity of putters used by the top pros. its mostly all mental.

but if changing because of that helps, do it.
 
My new cue came with a Tiger Everest that is ROCK hard, and is definitely making me play worse.

I think skill rather than equipment is the determining factor of 95% of things, but there are occasionally things I can blame on equipment.
 
many top players use a hard tip for various reasons to them. and tip hardness is mostly mental.

but the mental aspect does affect players, so that alone makes changing appreciate. but at least understand the why of it, rather than think its the equipment.
 
All the cues in the world are not going to change my knowledge of how to play the game & my decision making while playing.

The only thing that might I mean might influence my preferences is a change that doesn't really belong in the conversation in the first place.
 
the feel is after the hit so means nothing except for the mental aspect of it. and if that affects your game then it is important to get that part right.
same with a golf putter. unless something is wrong with it. as can be proven by the diversity of putters used by the top pros. its mostly all mental.

but if changing because of that helps, do it.
Again, we seem to be on opposite sides of the fence on this point. Indeed, the feel of the hit means nothing except for the mental aspect and I concur with you. Once the hit occurs,the cue ball is moving and the shot either goes in or not or the cue ball reaches its intended destination, i.e., position. So really, there is nothing that can be done after the hit except evaluate what happened and how it felt. Was you head in the right position, was my stance low enough, did I move while stroking or LUFU…..a golf acronym……how did my stroke feel, was my wrist straight, my grip too tight, what about my bridge length and of course, stroke speed and how hard I hit the cue ball which imparts a certain tactile feel to my fingers and palm. Absolutely, everything after the hit is absolutely mental. Sure, it can become a distraction.

However, like most things in life, there’s a flip side to a coin and mental does not need to be a distraction. Quite the contrary, it is what distinguishes the best players, athletes, competitors because they use it to their advantage. The great players learn from what just happened and if they liked the outcome they want to repeat it. If the outcome wasn’t to their satisfaction, they figure out how to change it. In baseball, the player learns to lay off certain pitches. In Golf, a player learns not to try and squeeze another 10-12 yards from swinging a club that resulted in an errant shot instead of choosing a different club. Pool is no different and if you do not learn anything from the shot you just pocketed, even if it’s only the feel of the shot, you are limiting your potential to improve. In other words, you are restricting your game.

If you swing and hit a home run and barrel the baseball, you don’t feel it through the throat of the barrel or the handle.
It is like you swung and it seemed easy. The same happens in golf where you center hit the iron, wood or driver. The
longest drives you’ll ever hit feel like you didn’t swing hard. The vibration is miniscule because you hit dead center on
the face. Swinging a hockey stick, tennis request, baseball bat, golf club translate into a sense of tactile feel and a pool cue is not very different but some players have cues and strikes that interfere with appreciating it or just think this is all a bunch of hooey. Okay, not much you can do with that mental outlook but having an open mind might be a lot more beneficial in the long run.

The feel of the shot or stroke provides feedback which is both a physical sensation as well as how you assess or judge it, i.e., mental. An athlete wil make changes in their swing based on what their swing produced and how it felt. A pool player is no different. Maybe I need to scuff my tip, refresh its shape, pay more attention to my grip position, did I rush my stroke at the end and it did not feel smoothly delivered, did I stroke too hard or soft? The hit of a cue can and does communicate with a pool player because they know what they intended & have lots of experience hitting pool balls.

A pool player gets to know when he hits a terrific shot and the cue ball energy results in ideal position. That shot had a feel to it. It can be the length of the backstroke, speed of follow thru, how much tip contact happened if horizontal English was used which feels different than vertical hits like follow thru or stop/stun shots. Yes, pool is a game on mental concentration and physical skills but I submit that mental awareness and paying closer attention to the tactile aspect of stroking a pool ball reveals helpful, useful information for becoming a better pool player. Pro athletes rely on this approach to excel in their professions so why shouldn’t amateurs emulate that approach?

Anyway, that is my take on this and obviously, we are on opposite sides of the fence about this aspect of pool.
 
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Again, we seem to be on opposite sides of the fence on this point. Indeed, the feel of the hit means nothing except for the mental aspect and I concur with you. Once the hit occurs,the cue ball is moving and the shot either goes in or not or the cue ball reaches its intended destination, i.e., position. So really, there is nothing that can be done after the hit except evaluate what happened and how it felt. Was you head in the right position, was my stance low enough, did I move while stroking or LUFU…..a golf acronym……how did my stroke feel, was my wrist straight, my grip too tight, what about my bridge length and of course, stroke speed and how hard I hit the cue ball which imparts a certain tactile feel to my fingers and palm. Absolutely, everything after the hit is absolutely mental. Sure, it can become a distraction.

However, like most things in life, there’s a flip side to a coin and mental does not need to be a distraction. Quite the contrary, it is what distinguishes the best players, athletes, competitors because they use it to their advantage. The great players learn from what just happened and if they liked the outcome they want to repeat it. If the outcome wasn’t to their satisfaction, they figure out how to change it. In baseball, the player learns to lay off certain pitches. In Golf, a player learns not to try and squeeze another 10-12 yards from swinging a club that resulted in an errant shot instead of choosing a different club. Pool is no different and if you do not learn anything from the shot you just pocketed, even if it’s only the feel of the shot, you are limiting your potential to improve. In other words, you are limiting your potential.

If you swing and hit a home run and barrel the baseball, you don’t feel it through the throat of the barrel or the handle.
It is like you swung and it seemed easy. The same happens in golf where you center hit the iron, wood or driver. The
longest drives you’ll ever hit feel like you didn’t swing hard. The vibration is miniscule because you hit dead center on
the face. Swinging a hockey stick, tennis request, baseball bat, golf club translate into a sense of tactile feel and a pool cue is not very different but some players have cues and strikes that interfere with appreciating it or just think this is all
a bunch of hooey. Okay, not much you can do with that mental outlook but having an open mind might be a lot more
beneficial in the long run.

The feel of the shot or stroke provides feedback which is both a physical sensation as well as how you assess or judge it, i.e., mental. An athlete chill makes changes in their swing based on their swing achieved and how it felt. A pool player is no different. Maybe I need to scuff my tip, refresh its shape, pay more attention to my grip position, did I rush my stroke at the end and it did not feel smoothly delivered, did I stroke too hard or soft? The hit of a cue can and does
communicate with a pool player because they know what they intended & have a dirty of experience hitting pool balls.

A pool player gets to know when he hits a terrific shot and the cue ball energy results in ideal position. That shot had a feel to it. It can be the length of the backstroke, speed of follow thru, how much tip contact happened if horizontal English was used which feels different than vertical hits like follow thru or stop/stun shots. Yes, pool is a game on mental concentration and physical skills but I submit that mental awareness and paying closer attention to the tactile
aspect of stroking a pool ball reveals helpful, useful information for becoming a better pool player. Pro athlete rely on this approach to excel in their professions so why shouldn’t amateurs emulate that approach?

Just make the ball.
When you know that you're gonna make the ball you can take what the table gives you.
 
many top players use a hard tip for various reasons to them. and tip hardness is mostly mental.

but the mental aspect does affect players, so that alone makes changing appreciate. but at least understand the why of it, rather than think its the equipment.
Except a hard tip will put more energy into the cue ball with less effort, kinda like why break cues have hard tips.
 
the feel is after the hit so means nothing except for the mental aspect of it. and if that affects your game then it is important to get that part right.
same with a golf putter. unless something is wrong with it. as can be proven by the diversity of putters used by the top pros. its mostly all mental.

but if changing because of that helps, do it.
Again, we seem to be on opposite sides of the fence on this point. Indeed, the feel of the hit means nothing except for the mental aspect and I concur with you. Once the hit occurs,the cue ball is moving and the shot either goes in or not or the cue ball reaches its intended destination, i.e., position. So really, there is nothing that can be done after the hit except evaluate what happened and how it felt. Was you head in the right position, was my stance low enough, did I move while stroking or LUFU…..a golf acronym……how did my stroke feel, was my wrist straight, my grip too tight, what about my bridge length and of course, stroke speed and how hard I hit the cue ball which imparts a certain tactile feel to my fingers and palm. Absolutely, everything after the hit is absolutely mental. Sure, it can become a distraction.

However, like most things in life, there’s a flip side to a coin and mental does not need to be a distraction. Quite the contrary, it is what distinguishes the best players, athletes, competitors because they use it to their advantage. The
great players learn from what just happened and if they liked the outcome they want to repeat it. If the outcome wasn’t
to their satisfaction, they figure out how to change it. In baseball, the player learns to lay off certain pitches. In Golf, a player learns not to try and squeeze another 10-12 yards from swinging a club that resulted in an errant shot instead of choosing a different club. Pool is no different and if you do not learn anything from the shot you just pocketed, even if
it’s only the feel of the shot, you are limiting your potential to improve. In other words, you are limiting your potential.

If you swing and hit a home run and barrel the baseball, you don’t feel it through the throat of the barrel or the handle.
It is like you swung and it seemed easy. The same happens in golf where you center hit the iron, wood or driver. The
longest drives you’ll ever hit feel like you didn’t swing hard. The vibration is miniscule because you hit dead center on
the face. Swinging a hockey stick, tennis request, baseball bat, golf club translate into a sense of tactile feel and a pool cue is not very different but some players have cues and strikes that interfere with appreciating it or just think this is all
a bunch of hooey. Okay, not much you can do with that mental outlook but having an open mind might be a lot more
beneficial in the long run.

The feel of the shot or stroke provides feedback which is both a physical sensation as well as how you assess or judge it, i.e., mental. An athlete chill makes changes in their swing based on their swing achieved and how it felt. A pool player is no different. Maybe I need to scuff my tip, refresh its shape, pay more attention to my grip position, did I rush my stroke at the end and it did not feel smoothly delivered, did I stroke too hard or soft? The hit of a cue can and does
communicate with a pool player because they know what they intended & have a dirty of experience hitting pool balls.

A pool player gets to know when he hits a terrific shot and the cue ball energy results in ideal position. That shot had a feel to it. It can be the length of the backstroke, speed of follow thru, how much tip contact happened if horizontal English was used which feels different than vertical hits like follow thru or stop/stun shots. Yes, pool is a game on mental concentration and physical skills but I submit that mental awareness and paying closer attention to the tactile
aspect of stroking a pool ball reveals helpful, useful information for becoming a better pool player. Pro athlete rely on this approach to excel in their professions so why shouldn’t amateurs emulate that approach?
Just make the ball.
When you know that you're gonna make the ball you can take what the table gives you.
Obladi Oblada works for some pool players but I am cut from a different fabric. Predictability, consistency & success
are my 3 goals when I play pool and accepting the outcome of your shot is undeniable since there there are no mulligans or do overs. But learning from every shot you attempt is the ultimate key to becoming the best you can be.
 
Again, we seem to be on opposite sides of the fence on this point. Indeed, the feel of the hit means nothing except for the mental aspect and I concur with you. Once the hit occurs,the cue ball is moving and the shot either goes in or not or the cue ball reaches its intended destination, i.e., position. So really, there is nothing that can be done after the hit except evaluate what happened and how it felt. Was you head in the right position, was my stance low enough, did I move while stroking or LUFU…..a golf acronym……how did my stroke feel, was my wrist straight, my grip too tight, what about my bridge length and of course, stroke speed and how hard I hit the cue ball which imparts a certain tactile feel to my fingers and palm. Absolutely, everything after the hit is absolutely mental. Sure, it can become a distraction.

However, like most things in life, there’s a flip side to a coin and mental does not need to be a distraction. Quite the contrary, it is what distinguishes the best players, athletes, competitors because they use it to their advantage. The
great players learn from what just happened and if they liked the outcome they want to repeat it. If the outcome wasn’t
to their satisfaction, they figure out how to change it. In baseball, the player learns to lay off certain pitches. In Golf, a player learns not to try and squeeze another 10-12 yards from swinging a club that resulted in an errant shot instead of choosing a different club. Pool is no different and if you do not learn anything from the shot you just pocketed, even if
it’s only the feel of the shot, you are limiting your potential to improve. In other words, you are limiting your potential.

If you swing and hit a home run and barrel the baseball, you don’t feel it through the throat of the barrel or the handle.
It is like you swung and it seemed easy. The same happens in golf where you center hit the iron, wood or driver. The
longest drives you’ll ever hit feel like you didn’t swing hard. The vibration is miniscule because you hit dead center on
the face. Swinging a hockey stick, tennis request, baseball bat, golf club translate into a sense of tactile feel and a pool cue is not very different but some players have cues and strikes that interfere with appreciating it or just think this is all
a bunch of hooey. Okay, not much you can do with that mental outlook but having an open mind might be a lot more
beneficial in the long run.

The feel of the shot or stroke provides feedback which is both a physical sensation as well as how you assess or judge it, i.e., mental. An athlete chill makes changes in their swing based on their swing achieved and how it felt. A pool player is no different. Maybe I need to scuff my tip, refresh its shape, pay more attention to my grip position, did I rush my stroke at the end and it did not feel smoothly delivered, did I stroke too hard or soft? The hit of a cue can and does
communicate with a pool player because they know what they intended & have a dirty of experience hitting pool balls.

A pool player gets to know when he hits a terrific shot and the cue ball energy results in ideal position. That shot had a feel to it. It can be the length of the backstroke, speed of follow thru, how much tip contact happened if horizontal English was used which feels different than vertical hits like follow thru or stop/stun shots. Yes, pool is a game on mental concentration and physical skills but I submit that mental awareness and paying closer attention to the tactile
aspect of stroking a pool ball reveals helpful, useful information for becoming a better pool player. Pro athlete rely on this approach to excel in their professions so why shouldn’t amateurs emulate that approach?

Obladi Oblada works for some pool players but I am cut from a different fabric. Predictability, consistency & success
are my 3 goals when I play pool and accepting the outcome of your shot is undeniable since there there are no mulligans or do overs. But learning from every shot you attempt is the ultimate key to becoming the best you can be.

For sure.
Paralysis through analysis?
Possibly.
There is no substitute for pocketing the ball. You'll still be at the table after pocketing the ball. It's in the rule book, unless you scratch and a scratch is always your own fault.
When you're at the table your opponent can't do a damned thing.
When your at the table you have options. Your opponent has no options. Play a safety, go for the shot.
You're decision.
 
A proper cue fitted to me would make a huge difference I guess. I don't even know what my cue weigh's and I haven't a clue where the balance point is. I do know that I like the way it feels and I like the feedback, but that holds true with many of my cues that have various joints, pins, and joint materials. The one thing in common is that I prefer a well broken in (I break with all of my playing cues) Tiger Everest tips that I end up putting on all of my cues, but they are a bit soft when new, I usually have my cue guy sand a couple of layers off when installing them. They are ridiculously tall when new.
 
bava we are on the same side here. you agree its mental. not the equipment.

all other things except for the equipment is mental. your physical changes you make is for mental reasons.
 
A proper cue fitted to me would make a huge difference I guess. I don't even know what my cue weigh's and I haven't a clue where the balance point is. I do know that I like the way it feels and I like the feedback, but that holds true with many of my cues that have various joints, pins, and joint materials. The one thing in common is that I prefer a well broken in (I break with all of my playing cues) Tiger Everest tips that I end up putting on all of my cues, but they are a bit soft when new, I usually have my cue guy sand a couple of layers off when installing them. They are ridiculously tall when new.
you will adapt in a short time to your equipment unless it is not suited or hampering you for some reason.

most make the wrong decision on changes base on small amount of trials.
such as you are playing badly this week so change to a different tip or cue. which has to be wrong in most cases.
 
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