Ivory vs ?
- Thread starter TheJackal
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Just a tip for further hunting: when i just need info i do a Google search followed by a 'search' here on AZ. 95% of the time i'll find what i'm looking for. I found this in like 15seconds.
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Ivory will fluoresce under a blacklight and will show some type of grain. It can be difficult to see in some pieces, but it'll be there. There are some newer synthetics that do a good job of mimicking ivory's grain, though. It doesn't look exactly like real ivory. But unless you've got a reasonable amount of experience with the real thing, it could be a little difficult to tell the difference.
Having said all that, I'd stay away from pursuing any cues with real ivory because of the ivory. And let me explain that. I wouldn't necessarily stay away from a cue because it has ivory in it. I just wouldn't go out of my way to look for and/or pay extra for a cue just because of its ivory content. For me, it has become more of a liability and potential hassle than it's worth. And that's coming from someone whose player has ivory rings. I traded for the cue and it just happened to have them. They have no added value to me and I would have been just as happy with it had they been made of some other similar looking material.
Having said all that, I'd stay away from pursuing any cues with real ivory because of the ivory. And let me explain that. I wouldn't necessarily stay away from a cue because it has ivory in it. I just wouldn't go out of my way to look for and/or pay extra for a cue just because of its ivory content. For me, it has become more of a liability and potential hassle than it's worth. And that's coming from someone whose player has ivory rings. I traded for the cue and it just happened to have them. They have no added value to me and I would have been just as happy with it had they been made of some other similar looking material.
Thank you for the info. I bought a cue because I liked it. Whether it is, or isn't , I would have bought it regardless
Knowing that you are looking at elephant ivory with the naked eye or a magnifier; as opposed to any other substance , is all a matter of experience. Trust me on this after my 50 years handling hundreds of cues with varied white materials. The black light thing is not foolproof for many reasons including the quality of the light itself in many cases. There are other " scientific" methods such as the hot pin piercing test - but I think the most honest answer is to find a very experienced person regarding ivory usage in any form such as cues, gun/ knife handles/ antique canes/ antique jewelry, etc. and have them view the item in person.
Even some 1980/early 90 Meucci cues used a white material - I have handled those cues--that many think is ivory, but to the truly experienced, one can see that it is a man made material.
Even some 1980/early 90 Meucci cues used a white material - I have handled those cues--that many think is ivory, but to the truly experienced, one can see that it is a man made material.
Do you mind mentioning the cue's maker or posting a pic? In a lot of cases, the cue's maker and when it was made are clues as to whether the material in question is or isn't actual ivory. That's not to say that any cue maker never used a white material that wasn't ivory. But there are some cue makers who basically never used ivory and others who have used it extensively. So knowing who made it and when could go a long way towards a yay or nay.Forgive my ignorance on this topic
If you're purchasing a cue, and the person says it has an ivory ferrule, collar, inlays, etc. How do you know it is?
pics are not very good but i'm pretty sure if its a '91 JW that both the joint and ferrules are ivory.
Talking a '91 JW- make sure that the white material is clean, put them under a good light and use a magnifier if necessary- if you see any grain in the white----- for this year and cue maker it is close to 100% that they are ivory. The ivory joints that I have seen on earlier JW cues are about a half inch in length. FYI- some of his ivory joints are prone to develop cracks, but I know very good players who have played with cracked JW ivory joints for years with no ill effects on their game.
The ivory in the ferrule and joint is all about the feel.
The Meucie plastic came close. McDermott plastic had a much softer feel.
A stainless steel joint would be my second choice after ivory. I never had the opportunity to own an ivory joint. I did get the chance to hit balls withe a JW and it was like eating ice cream. A friend had a custom made McDamnit with ivory joint and ferrule. And a leather wrap ! He bought it for $250!!! An indicator of how long ago that was. A JW cue at the time would go for 1200 (or more).
He let me hit a ball with it too and enjoyed my expression of LUST for his cue. 
Ivory can Crack but super glue makes a solid repair. My ivory ferrule has been reinforced with super glue thined to penatrate the Crack. The Crack line was highlighted with a marking pen so I can use the line as a front sight. it works for me.
The Meucie plastic came close. McDermott plastic had a much softer feel.
A stainless steel joint would be my second choice after ivory. I never had the opportunity to own an ivory joint. I did get the chance to hit balls withe a JW and it was like eating ice cream. A friend had a custom made McDamnit with ivory joint and ferrule. And a leather wrap ! He bought it for $250!!! An indicator of how long ago that was. A JW cue at the time would go for 1200 (or more).
He let me hit a ball with it too and enjoyed my expression of LUST for his cue. Ivory can Crack but super glue makes a solid repair. My ivory ferrule has been reinforced with super glue thined to penatrate the Crack. The Crack line was highlighted with a marking pen so I can use the line as a front sight.
it works for me.
Benelli
Well-known member
I feel like the superglue penetrating the crack is only forcing the material further apart, and as you continue to hit with it, new separation/delamination is occurring under that patch.The ivory in the ferrule and joint is all about the feel.
The Meucie plastic came close. McDermott plastic had a much softer feel.
A stainless steel joint would be my second choice after ivory. I never had the opportunity to own an ivory joint. I did get the chance to hit balls withe a JW and it was like eating ice cream. A friend had a custom made McDamnit with ivory joint and ferrule. And a leather wrap ! He bought it for $250!!! An indicator of how long ago that was. A JW cue at the time would go for 1200 (or more).
Ivory can Crack but super glue makes a solid repair. My ivory ferrule has been reinforced with super glue thined to penatrate the Crack. The Crack line was highlighted with a marking pen so I can use the line as a front sight.
At the end of the day, ivory is a natural material that has rings and natural growth patterns that, once a flaw develops, you have to address in its entirety because you are only delaying the inevitable.
Most of the makers that I talk to who still work in ivory never repair, only replace.
Well your feelings don't Trump my experience.
I ain't selling nothing. Just offered my knowledge. I used acetone as thinner and my super glue repair has lasted well over 25 years and I do break with it.
So anyone that prescribed take it off and replace is going to my uh ignore status.
It's difficult to be polite so well speaking from a position of lack of knowledge is better than well nevermind.I am a master in the art of glue and worked with Many forms of adhesive in my construction career.
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Benelli
Well-known member
Yes, you have mastered glue and the sniffing of it. Of this we can both agree on...Well your feelings don't Trump my experience.
I ain't selling nothing. Just offered my knowledge. I used acetone as thinner and my super glue repair has lasted well over 25 years and I do break with it.
So anyone that prescribed take it off and replace is going to my uh ignore status.
I am a master in the art of glue and worked with Manny forms of adhesive in my construction career.
I welcome being on your ignore list
This is likely to be my new name for McDermotts.
In all likelihood, Bill built this cue using ivory. It was what he usually used for ferrules and joints during that period of his cue making. As far as testing the material to confirm it’s truly ivory is not worth attempting. Knowledgeable buyers will trust that the cue has ivory as long as this cue was indeed built by Bill. I know I would and I am a big proponent of ivory for the ferrules and joint. As far as using ivory for inlays, there’s no benefit or merit to doing that because it’s purely for decorative purposes. As such, a cue maker can use any material for inlays but the joint and ferrules are more functional in nature that influences your pool stroke feedback & feel. The truth is nothing I’ve encountered feels better then ivory which is why my cues have it.
Since I couldn’t get a ivory joint cue built residing in CA, my next choice for a cue joint is a wood to wood joint.The ivory in the ferrule and joint is all about the feel.
The Meucie plastic came close. McDermott plastic had a much softer feel.
A stainless steel joint would be my second choice after ivory. I never had the opportunity to own an ivory joint. I did get the chance to hit balls withe a JW and it was like eating ice cream. A friend had a custom made McDamnit with ivory joint and ferrule. And a leather wrap ! He bought it for $250!!! An indicator of how long ago that was. A JW cue at the time would go for 1200 (or more).
Ivory can Crack but super glue makes a solid repair. My ivory ferrule has been reinforced with super glue thined to penatrate the Crack. The Crack line was highlighted with a marking pen so I can use the line as a front sight.
40 years ago I played with a cue that was just wood, no metal pin, and it played fantastic. But I was forewarned
that if I played a lot of pool, the joint would not hold up like a steel joint would over the years. I was told the joint
would not remain as tight so not knowing this to be reliable, or not, I discovered flat ivory joints played just as nice.
Roger Petit made fantastic cues with only a thin reinforcing collar at the joint. With large threads like McDermott with wood to wood. Not sure of the material. He salvaged broken one piece bar cues and made a valuable sneaker cue at a rock bottom price.
I probably earned more money with my Roger than my Joss that I have had for decades.
Like a McDermott it had a softer feel to the hit. That quality is something that depends on personal preference. Similar to a preference for hard or soft in the tip.
The difference in hits was driven home with Cole telling me, "I wouldn't be able to play with that cue now." A year after I bought it from him. Well I strive to emulate what he could do on a pool table. I doubt that I can feel the most delicate differences that Cole spoke of.
The McDamnit is intended as a friendly needle and have respect for the quality. My taste in hit has just evolved.
when billy started using something other then ivory or asked to his joints would get a little yellow color over time.
he also sometimes used something that was very white and plain.
his ivory joints would crack if you used them right after coming in from the cold and not letting the cue warm up to room temps.
i had multiple times it happened. so when it did i got something else. and i forget what it was.
i think micarta by the 1990,s and micarta will yellow if exposed to much light.
he also sometimes used something that was very white and plain.
his ivory joints would crack if you used them right after coming in from the cold and not letting the cue warm up to room temps.
i had multiple times it happened. so when it did i got something else. and i forget what it was.
i think micarta by the 1990,s and micarta will yellow if exposed to much light.