Jazz-Window Vines: My christmas gift to me...

No. Tony has respect for Edwin as I said. Its just the circumstance. When Tony decided to be on his own, Edwin talked to Tony that his Japanese partner got worried that Edwin's system will be used by Tony and enter the Japanese market. Tony assured Edwin that this won't happen as he is developing a system of his own. So its because of this that Tony tries to avoid the subject when it is mentioned and he wants people to see his work as a Tony Bautista work. Am not sure how long Tony and the other guys were employed under Edwin.

May I ask what "system" you are referring to?
A-joint, splicing, inlaying???
 
magnum said:
monski said:
No. Tony has respect for Edwin as I said. Its just the circumstance. When Tony decided to be on his own, Edwin talked to Tony that his Japanese partner got worried that Edwin's system will be used by Tony and enter the Japanese market. Tony assured Edwin that this won't happen as he is developing a system of his own. So its because of this that Tony tries to avoid the subject when it is mentioned and he wants people to see his work as a Tony Bautista work. Am not sure how long Tony and the other guys were employed under Edwin.


Pardon me for butting in but this paragraph is somewhat incomplete as per Master Bandido. Master Bandido demanded by presenting Patent papers to ensure his system will not be used to enter the Japanese market. I'm not sure why the Japanese market entry was drag into this coz we can just say that we respect the Master...period...all's well that ends well. Pls take note that a weak information might trigger wrong signals mostly to the name involved who also reads these posts but can't reply. Lets be more careful the next time around...

Thank you very much...
Allan
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Sorry Allan. I know Edwin is very sensitive to this issue that's why I tried to be very careful in answering the matter. But if you carefully look into the early posts, that's precisely what I said. The guy respects Edwin and other people he worked with" (period) as quoted below:

"Tony has a lot of respect from Edwin and some other guys he's wroked with. No doubt about that."

Jimbo just wanted some clarification from below:
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Originally Posted by JimBo
Yet you seem to be replying like if this guy is linked to Edwin it's an insult?? I am not sure I am understanding you. If I worked with a well respected master I think I would name drop as often as I could, can you shed light as to why you say he wouldn't mention his name? how long did he study under Edwin?


No. Tony has respect for Edwin as I said. Its just the circumstance. When Tony decided to be on his own, Edwin talked to Tony that his Japanese partner got worried that Edwin's system will be used by Tony and enter the Japanese market. Tony assured Edwin that this won't happen as he is developing a system of his own. So its because of this that Tony tries to avoid the subject when it is mentioned and he wants people to see his work as a Tony Bautista work. Am not sure how long Tony and the other guys were employed under Edwin.
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So I tried to respond as carefully as I could.

I guess I should have asked Jimbo to contact Edwin on the phone or something. But its a good thing you passed on what Edwin had to say on the matter so we get the whole picture.

I just wanted to post the picture man. Hope ER is doing well. Please send him my best regards.
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JoeyInCali said:
No. Tony has respect for Edwin as I said. Its just the circumstance. When Tony decided to be on his own, Edwin talked to Tony that his Japanese partner got worried that Edwin's system will be used by Tony and enter the Japanese market. Tony assured Edwin that this won't happen as he is developing a system of his own. So its because of this that Tony tries to avoid the subject when it is mentioned and he wants people to see his work as a Tony Bautista work. Am not sure how long Tony and the other guys were employed under Edwin.

May I ask what "system" you are referring to?
A-joint, splicing, inlaying???
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You'll have to ask ER so you get it direct from the horse's mouth. He may be very busy though. I hope Allan can spare some more of his time for the master. He may still have PC problems.
 
monski said:
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You'll have to ask ER so you get it direct from the horse's mouth. He may be very busy though. I hope Allan can spare some more of his time for the master. He may still have PC problems.
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What system has Tony develop?
Does he have his own A-joint configuration, splicing method and/or inlaying method of his own making?
 
JoeyInCali said:
What system has Tony develop?
Does he have his own A-joint configuration, splicing method and/or inlaying method of his own making?
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I'm no cue expert so I don't know if he can claim something that is exclusive to his cue making style. Specially since his experience is based on how cue construction has grown over the years from his working for shops in the province and in Quezon City.

But I like his use a combination of solid and laminated cross-sectional splicing for cores and handles (this I think is done by many other people/makers with their own configurations). He's also trying impregnating wood using resin and other materials (But that's already being done by other people also).

Inlaying is mostly done in the same manner (hand) inlays are done in this side of town. But I'm not an expert on that too.

I know nothing about A joint configurations. I'll ask him. I don't know if he will share (if he has one) and I doubt if he will patent. You mean how he configures the tenon (threaded or not plus details etc) on the A joint right?

Thanks
 
monski said:
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I'm no cue expert so I don't know if he can claim something that is exclusive to his cue making style. Specially since his experience is based on how cue construction has grown over the years from his working for shops in the province and in Quezon City.

But I like his use a combination of solid and laminated cross-sectional splicing for cores and handles (this I think is done by many other people/makers with their own configurations). He's also trying impregnating wood using resin and other materials (But that's already being done by other people also).

Inlaying is mostly done in the same manner (hand) inlays are done in this side of town. But I'm not an expert on that too.

I know nothing about A joint configurations. I'll ask him. I don't know if he will share (if he has one) and I doubt if he will patent. You mean how he configures the tenon (threaded or not plus details etc) on the A joint right?

Thanks
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Thnx. No need.
That's enough for me.
 
monski said:
Anyway, from what I know Tony promised Edwin that he will not use Edwin's system or name in any sort of marketing.
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It's a small world Monski. I have been told by people from Aurora Billiards all te way to the former Anson's that my name has been mentioned more than once and mostly when mud-slinging. The players too that Tony supplies are guilty of this when they take the cues to Japan. What's wrong about it is that these players don't leave Tony's contact number so when problems with the cues arise, who do you think they'll approach? I remember discussing this with you.


monski said:
When Tony decided to be on his own, Edwin talked to Tony that his Japanese partner got worried that Edwin's system will be used by Tony and enter the Japanese market. Tony assured Edwin that this won't happen as he is developing a system of his own.
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Now this is the erroneous statement! You make it sound like I owe him a favor. I didn't just talk to him, I confronted him with a law enforcement officer as a witness. I brought him a copy of a patent that's registered under my name. And as required by patent law, I presented, explained the patent and reason for the visit (warning for patent infringement) and consequences should they continue to infringe after this warning. He even had the guts, as we were leaving, to whisper to me that I should be careful with my materials. Guess what? The machinist guy in Bulacan that they go to told another cuemaker about the sample that was brought to him. Hmmmmm....

Second occurance of a confrontation was when they made a cue for Mika888 that was auctioned off in e-bay and misrepresented as an Edwin Reyes cue. That occurance was even posted here and the thread is titled "Counterfeit ER cue". You're aware of this as I even advised you not to cut in on Mika888's "action" with Tony. What did you think was I and my dealer were cooking up for a counter-"action" until we had to prematurely abort after we had all the ducks in a row? Well, thank you very much for listening to my advise.

Mika888 was having them build cues to resemble mine, sign it with his initial (JTL-Jojo T. Lirio aka Mika888), auction it in e-bay as an Edwin Reyes cue and explain to interested parties that JTL is one of the markings that I use! My dealer has all the copies of the auction and photos sent by an interested party that clearly shows this marking (clearly identity theft). So does e-bay Inc. as they were advised to keep files for an impending legal action. So who do you think wrote down those initials on the cue under the clear coat? Tony told me that Mika888 asked them to do this as they even presented me the business card that will remind them of the initials.

I am aware that Tony and crew are financially strapped that is why they fall prey to these greedy rush the manufacturing dealers. It was the reason why we parted ways, bet 'cha that you were told something different. Their fly-by-night, no store-front Japanese dealer tempted them into counterfeiting ER240s. That didn't work out well, did it?

Nice cue, by the way. ciao
 
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bandido said:
It's a small world Monski. I have been told by people from Aurora Billiards all te way to the former Anson's that my name has been mentioned more than once and mostly when mud-slinging. The players too that Tony supplies are guilty of this when they take the cues to Japan. What's wrong about it is that these players don't leave Tony's contact number so when problems with the cues arise, who do you think they'll approach? I remember discussing this with you.




Now this is the erroneous statement! You make it sound like I owe him a favor. I didn't just talk to him, I confronted him with a law enforcement officer as a witness. I brought him a copy of a patent that's registered under my name. And as required by patent law, I presented, explained the patent and reason for the visit (warning for patent infringement) and consequences should they continue to infringe after this warning. He even had the guts, as we were leaving, to whisper to me that I should be careful with my materials. Guess what? The machinist guy in Bulacan that they go to told another cuemaker about the sample that was brought to him. Hmmmmm....

Second occurance of a confrontation was when they made a cue for Mika888 that was auctioned off in e-bay and misrepresented as an Edwin Reyes cue. That occurance was even posted here and the thread is titled "Counterfeit ER cue". You're aware of this as I even advised you not to cut in on Mika888's "action" with Tony. What did you think was I and my dealer were cooking up for a counter-"action" until we had to prematurely abort after we had all the ducks in a row? Well, thank you very much for listening to my advise.

Mika888 was having them build cues to resemble mine, sign it with his initial (JTL-Jojo T. Lirio aka Mika888), auction it in e-bay as an Edwin Reyes cue and explain to interested parties that JTL is one of the markings that I use! My dealer has all the copies of the auction and photos sent by an interested party that clearly shows this marking (clearly identity theft). So does e-bay Inc. as they were advised to keep files for an impending legal action. So who do you think wrote down those initials on the cue under the clear coat? Tony told me that Mika888 asked them to do this as they even presented me the business card that will remind them of the initials.

I am aware that Tony and crew are financially strapped that is why they fall prey to these greedy rush the manufacturing dealers. It was the reason why we parted ways, bet 'cha that you were told something different. Their fly-by-night, no store-front Japanese dealer tempted them into counterfeiting ER240s. That didn't work out well, did it?

Nice cue, by the way. ciao
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I don't know the answers Edwin. I just posted pictures of the cue and aswered questions to the best of my knowledge.

As I said Tony has nothing but respect for you. I don't agree to any misrepresentation people may have done in selling. But by your own statement, its the players and Mika. If that's what they did then that's wrong. And if Tony infringes on your patent, he should be ready for the consequences. So if something is wrong with a Jazz cue, the buyers approach you or Alpha? Why would they do that? Did the players say that Tony still works for you? You mentioned this but I never got to ask why.

I don't know who the machinist you are talking about (nor the situation you mentioned).

Am not aware that they have or had a Japanese dealer. I don't know anything about this JTL deal but I will ask Tony about it so I get the entire picture. But if Tony presented the buisness card to you, then 1) he expressed loyalty to you despite your parting or 2) you were aware of the development and you were being updated. Why would they present a business card if they were trying to do this under your nose?

I am not cutting in on anybody's action. I make do with the little I earn. Wasn't it sometime ago when you said that Linds heard that I put up my cue brand? Rumors have a way of getting uncontrolled. I just don't mind these rumors.

You said you parted ways because he was cooking something with a fly by night dealer (or maybe I got it wrong again... please correct if ever)? I don't understand this because you even gave me directions to his shop when I was trying to look for him. You even wished him well right? Anyway, your parting with him is none of my business and I'll take your word for it.

Thanks for the complement on the cue... different from your work though. Take care.
 
monski said:
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As I said Tony has nothing but respect for you. I don't agree to any misrepresentation people may have done in selling. But by your own statement, its the players and Mika.
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Wrong, this mostly happens when they peddle their cues in the said poolhalls.
monski said:
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So if something is wrong with a Jazz cue, the buyers approach you or Alpha? Why would they do that? Did the players say that Tony still works for you? You mentioned this but I never got to ask why.
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You never had to ask why when I made that long explanation when we were face-to-face here. Here's a summary of what goes on. Sell a cue overseas mentioning my name during the sales pitch. Make sale but doesn't leave a contact number so when a problem arises ....who do you think these disgruntled buyers approach to get their cues repaired, returned or asked to take back to the maker. It's unneccesary hassle for us and you're aware of this as you even posted about this in a previous thread where we last got into a disagreement

monski said:
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Am not aware that they have or had a Japanese dealer. I don't know anything about this JTL deal but I will ask Tony about it so I get the entire picture. But if Tony presented the buisness card to you, then 1) he expressed loyalty to you despite your parting or 2) you were aware of the development and you were being updated. Why would they present a business card if they were trying to do this under your nose?
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It's called "pointing a finger even though the hand was caught in the cookie jar".

monski said:
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I am not cutting in on anybody's action.
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Nice thing about forums is that you can always check the archives.

monski said:
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You said you parted ways because he was cooking something with a fly by night dealer (or maybe I got it wrong again... please correct if ever)? I don't understand this because you even gave me directions to his shop when I was trying to look for him. You even wished him well right?
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I don't understand how your 2 sentences are related but to answer the 2nd, you asked and I answered PERIOD!

monski said:
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Thanks for the complement on the cue... different from your work though. Take care.
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I agree and am glad.
 
Hi Ed.:)
You sure you still want to visit your shop?:eek:
Should I change my last name now?:D
Good thing nobody knows your shaft supplier.
They might be able to come close to copying your ( err, dare I say? ) butts externally, but the shafts look b-grade to me.
 
bandido said:
Wrong, this mostly happens when they peddle their cues in the said poolhalls.

You never had to ask why when I made that long explanation when we were face-to-face here. Here's a summary of what goes on. Sell a cue overseas mentioning my name during the sales pitch. Make sale but doesn't leave a contact number so when a problem arises ....who do you think these disgruntled buyers approach to get their cues repaired, returned or asked to take back to the maker. It's unneccesary hassle for us and you're aware of this as you even posted about this in a previous thread where we last got into a disagreement

monski: I see.

It's called "pointing a finger even though the hand was caught in the cookie jar".

monski: ok I understand where you're coming from.

Nice thing about forums is that you can always check the archives.

monski: you edited out a sentence or two. its ok. one fallback about reading is sometimes people read too much into a sentence or a word.

I don't understand how your 2 sentences are related but to answer the 2nd, you asked and I answered PERIOD!

monski: If you got off on a bad note (specially regarding on a conflict of interest) why did it seem that nothing so out of the ordinary other than a normal parting of ways and you pointed the direction to his shop like business as usual? ( irrelevant to me anyway...) I asked about this and the reason given on why you parted ways was different. But the you already said that I will probably be told a different story. So I can leave it at that.

I agree and am glad.
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monski: He still says he respects you and appreciative of the time he made cues for you. He has even kept the 240 you gave for sentimental reasons.

Thanks. Be well.
 
monski said:
monski: He still says he respects you and appreciative of the time he made cues for you. He has even kept the 240 you gave for sentimental reasons.

Thanks. Be well.
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Tony was like a brother to me but unfortunately he had to go with his brothers' decision as I was really getting close to busting their after hours work at Al's for that overseas dealer. Tony didn't even know how to use an engine lathe nor make straight edge points when I picked him up. If he probably had a better financial situation then he can demand that the dealers and consumers follow the proper production schedule instead of the other way around. I know that he can do better if he still remembers all that I've taught him and if given the opportunity to.

I'm not one to stay mad for long as long as no false statements are made to trigger my anger. I did well years before I took him in and years after he left.
 
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