JJ ball cleaning foul

u12armresl

u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
He had 12 seconds left, asked for the ball to be cleaned, they cleaned it and placed it back and 4,3,2,1 foul 4 to 4 Alcaide gets BIH runs it out.

Said no one told him it was the rule and the clock should have stopped.
 
buckshotshoey

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Anyone that has ever watched the Mosconi Cup knows the clock will not stop for a ball cleaning. It has only ever stopped for the referee to get the crowd under control. An amateurish mistake at the least.
 
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V

VVP

Registered
JJ got caught up in the moment. Some tournaments stop the clock while the ball is being cleaned. Players usually look away from the table in such situations so as not to be seen as trying to "game" the system. MC does not stop the clock, and JJ must know that. Things like this happen in pressure situations. It just sucks that it happened to JJ in a very exciting and important match.

BTW, I have heard a commentator said that sometimes players ask that the 9 ball be cleaned in the hopes that when the ball is replaced the stripe will orient differently. Players try to gain any advantage they could outside of cheating.
 
BRussell

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
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A couple of random thoughts:

1. People are saying Jeremy didn’t hear the clock, but he definitely heard it. It’s what started him asking the ref why the clock wasn’t stopped. They were talking about it before the time foul was called.

2. Someone mentioned in the other thread that Jeremy’s hands were sweating. If you see the video, he got down to shoot, and then with around 12 sec left he got up and asked for the ball to be cleaned. He went over and dried off his hands, and you can see the wet spot on the rail where he had his bridge hand. He was clearly doing it to get a little extension and dry off his hands. Nothing wrong with that, it’s not cheating, it’s just not the rule…

3. What is it with people and these conspiracy theories (they were out to get Earl, or Jeremy) or complaints of unfairness (Shaw asked for a bug to be removed from the ball and he got extra time!), not to mention calls to quit and go home, both when Earl got taken out and now with this. WTF is wrong with people that their first instinct is to go to this nonsense. It sucks, he made a mistake, it happens, that’s it. No reason to come up with BS to try to defend it.
 
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crocdoc

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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I didn’t hear the clock. With 10 seconds left it comes on and
is very loud. Maybe my ears are failing.
 
Slasher

Slasher

KE = 0.5 • m • v2
Silver Member
BRussell said:
A couple of random thoughts:

1. People are saying Jeremy didn’t hear the clock, but he definitely heard it. It’s what started him asking the ref why the clock wasn’t stopped. They were talking about it before the time foul was called.

2. Someone mentioned in the other thread that Jeremy’s hands were sweating. If you see the video, he got down to shoot, and then with around 12 sec left he got up and asked for the ball to be cleaned. He went over and dried off his hands, and you can see the wet spot on the rail where he had his bridge hand. He was clearly doing it to get a little extension and dry off his hands. Nothing wrong with that, it’s not cheating, it’s just not the rule…

3. What is it with people and these conspiracy theories (they were out to get Earl, or Jeremy) or complaints of unfairness (Shaw asked for a bug to be removed from the ball and he got extra time!), not to mention calls to quit and go home, both when Earl got taken out and now with this. WTF is wrong with people that their first instinct is to go to this nonsense. It sucks, he made a mistake, it happens, that’s it. No reason to come up with BS to try to defend it.
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It's unfortunate this happened, it also gives the tin foil hats an excuse for losing and there won't be any mention of the multitude of bad shots and misses the US team made today. Will it be pivotal in the overall scheme? maybe maybe not but we will never know.
9-5 is not good but it is from positions like these that greatness can be had, they just need to step up.
 
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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BRussell said:
A couple of random thoughts:

1. People are saying Jeremy didn’t hear the clock, but he definitely heard it. It’s what started him asking the ref why the clock wasn’t stopped. They were talking about it before the time foul was called.

2. Someone mentioned in the other thread that Jeremy’s hands were sweating. If you see the video, he got down to shoot, and then with around 12 sec left he got up and asked for the ball to be cleaned. He went over and dried off his hands, and you can see the wet spot on the rail where he had his bridge hand. He was clearly doing it to get a little extension and dry off his hands. Nothing wrong with that, it’s not cheating, it’s just not the rule…

3. What is it with people and these conspiracy theories (they were out to get Earl, or Jeremy) or complaints of unfairness (Shaw asked for a bug to be removed from the ball and he got extra time!), not to mention calls to quit and go home, both when Earl got taken out and now with this. WTF is wrong with people that their first instinct is to go to this nonsense. It sucks, he made a mistake, it happens, that’s it. No reason to come up with BS to try to defend it.
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As far as your number two, that would be hard to believe. If he has a sweating problem with his hands and it certainly appears he did since you could see the sweat on the rail after he first got down on the shot and then got back up, he should’ve had his left hand / fingers out of his glove on a towel while in his chair waiting for his next turn at the table. As soon as he sees Alcaide is playing a safety, he should’ve put a dry glove on his hand to be ready before he even has to get out of his chair to approach the table.

The problem was he appeared to leave the table one time at about 25 seconds and then came back to the table with about 16-17 seconds and the clock was down to about 12 seconds before he asked for the cue balll to be cleaned - too late.
 
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BRussell

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ChrisinNC said:
As far as your number two, that would be hard to believe. If he has a sweating problem with his hands, either he should be wearing a glove (I didn’t notice if he does) or he should’ve had his left hand / fingers literally on a towel while in his chair waiting for his next turn at the table, and then using the towel immediately as he’s getting up from his chair before approaching the table.
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Which part do you think is hard to believe? He definitely got down to shoot and then got back up again, leaving a wet spot on the rail. He called for the ball to be cleaned, and immediately walked over to dry his hands. Maybe it was coincidental, but I doubt it. Maybe he did see a chalky spot, but I doubt it. Again there's nothing wrong with doing that, if that was the rule, but it's not.

(He was wearing a glove.)


1639106187040.jpeg
 
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ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BRussell said:
Which part do you think is hard to believe? He definitely got down to shoot and then got back up again, leaving a wet spot on the rail. He called for the ball to be cleaned, and immediately walked over to dry his hands. Maybe it was coincidental, but I doubt it. Maybe he did see a chalky spot, but I doubt it. Again there's nothing wrong with doing that, if that was the rule, but it's not.

(He was wearing a glove.)


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I think you misunderstood what I was saying and perhaps I didn’t state it the right way. I’m not saying it’s hard to believe it happened as it clearly did.

I’m saying it’s just hard to believe for a player of JJ’s experience, at this level, in this critical a moment, that he could have found himself in this predicament - To not be prepared having done everything he could to make sure his hands and glove was dry before he approached the table the first time.
 
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SmoothStroke

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
Yikes,,,, it looks like he took to the heat so bad he needed huggies or pampers instead of a glove.
The rail looks like it went through a car wash.
I hope he recovers well and brings back the trophy.
 
Shuddy

Shuddy

Diamond Dave’s babysitter
Silver Member
ChicagoJoe said:
Clock stopped for Shaw under the same circumstances in an earlier round.
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Completely different circumstances. An insect was on the table. The referee asked for the clock to be stopped at exactly the same time Shaw moved his hand. Ref was acting to stop the clock regardless of Shaw.
 
galipeau

galipeau

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The ref should have reiterated that the clock doesn't stop before he went to clean the ball.

Even though it's not the rule that he has to say anything, he should have done it as a professional courtesy as a reminder. JJ should have known, yes, but it's still b******* if you ask me to end the frame that way after they played so hard.

You can tell his stroke isn't totally there, but he pulled off some amazing shots. At that point in the game you just gotta keep shooting. Heart breaking.
 
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