Joint protectors.......

Tony Zinzola said:
Have fun.

All I can say is that if you want to do all of my joint protectors with Matching Ringwork and Engraved Ivory tops for my cues, I will pay you $150 per set provided they come sprayed, polished and are the exact size to match up to the joint and shafts. All I'll have to do is face them off to align the ring work.

I'm sure after one or two sets, you'll change your mind about them.
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WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!!
how about this.....
one person makes a set the best they can and only charge say 50 ....your best for 50..... I'll make MY best for 50. have the people vote on it. winner take the others? and if I win I'll donate the proceeds to say boys and girls club...

now remember making something on a constant basis for that amount that is someone orders one from you it has to be that amount and no more.
one set for an after construction and

a set during construction of the cue for less than 20 but has to be your BEST for that amount.

So how about it big guy? want to put your work up against mine?
I will ..... cause this I know if I loose I can say I lost and humble myself.
but I'll get up and strive to do better. cause I do care about the players pockets ........... I want to let the players know that they can get more bang for their bucks.
 
I think it would be hard to regulate a certain dollar amount, in this case $50. Is this a $50 set you are going to make a profit on, all in material cost ect? See, there are a few variables that I don't think would work. Why not just make the best set possible?
 
Tony Zinzola said:
I'll send you all the ivory you need, the G Code. Hell, I'll even send you the wood, silver and Phenolic Rings. You buy the bits and do the work. You'll probably need a set of Mandrels or two as well. My rings require no larger than a .012" cutter. Pieces are cut out of silver sheet.

If this works for you, I'll send you the supplies.

Just so you know what you're getting yourself into, I am attaching a photograph.

08-18-10-002.jpg
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got yourself a deal if you'll make mine........? I wont have a picture till a week cause I still have to decide what I want you to make for me....
want to take me up on mine?
all you'll need is your hands and a few knives, a drill bit, and tap.!!!
and we take pics during the construction of the JPs that way....no cheating.....like others doing it for you...... you want exact dimensions cause if you say yes, I want exact dimension........

what do you say?
My balls are dangling and ready to take you up on your offer........
 
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zy112 said:
I think it would be hard to regulate a certain dollar amount, in this case $50. Is this a $50 set you are going to make a profit on, all in material cost ect? See, there are a few variables that I don't think would work. Why not just make the best set possible?
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there has to be a dollar cap.....to let the players see what they can get for 50.... know what I mean....
 
I guess, but whose to say what would really cost $50. Someone could build a $200 set and SAY it cost $50. Although, I know Tony is an honest man and would not do that. Just pointing out that it could be if just anyone took you up on your offer. Understand your point though.
 
Piercyexclusive said:
got yourself a deal if you'll make mine........? I wont have a picture till a week cause I still have to decide what I want you to make for me....
want to take me up on mine?
all you'll need is your hands and a few knives, a drill bit, and tap.!!!
and we take pics during the construction of the JPs that way....no cheating.....like others doing it for you...... you want exact dimensions cause if you say yes, I want exact dimension........

what do you say?
My balls are dangling and ready to take you up on your offer........
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You don't understand. I don't want to make them. EVER. That's why I'm offering to pay you $150 to make mine for me, since you think they cost too much. This is more than you're planning on charging, so I think it's a fair deal for you.

I'm not trying to pick an argument with you. What I'm saying is that they are a lot of work and I could be doing other things. If you can make them and they are right, I am willing to pay you for them.
 
Piercyexclusive said:
there has to be a dollar cap.....to let the players see what they can get for 50.... know what I mean....
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If you break two cutters doing the ringwork, you'll be at the $50 cap for mine. I don't break cutters unless I do something stupid. But, after cutting the rings out in two phenolic pieces, the cutter is too dull to do a third.
 
see.... this is where everything gets out of hand...... I want to see pics of JPS and how much people would pay for them.
Then inform then what I felt.....such as
why so much....
that price is crazy especially if they were built at the same time the cue was built.
and I just cann't see myself as a cuemaker digging deeper into any players pocket more and more after they spend alot of money on the cue itself.

then let them compare my philiosophies with others..... I want to hear from consumers (who by the way deserves more from us that a bare minimun of what they pay.)

but challenge me... I guess I get I-rate cause all my life as a cuemaker all I get is ....
you can not do this....
your cue sucks.......
these point's wont work...........
no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no,no, ....

Now I'm coming out kicking and screaming and I'll make sure that my work is uncomparable to anyones.. cause that's who I am.....

I want the consumers to know that there are cuemakers out there that will go that extra mile for them without having to be paid for that mile.
come on guys I just want to be on the side that feeds us.......
I want to be the cuemaker that can be proud to say....
I did this, this, this, and this and didn't charge him for it cause he's already spent to much as it is..... a little extra touch to make them like it more.....is nothing.!!!!!!
I advocate for the players not the competitors.
 
I guess I do not get why Toy's chops are being busted here. He is not alone...many makers really do not like and some just won't...making joint protectors for cues. Especially when it's a higher end cue, where everything needs to be just so, or what's the point. Basically, they're a PITA to do...probably an even bigger pain to finish properly. And did anyone miss the part about time consumption? It is a big reason why many cues are shipped with simple delrin joint protectors. Otherwise, if you insist, they're gonna cost you...period. They are a 'vanity' item...much like personalized plates on a high end car.

Lisa
 
zy112 said:
I guess, but whose to say what would really cost $50. Someone could build a $200 set and SAY it cost $50. Although, I know Tony is an honest man and would not do that. Just pointing out that it could be if just anyone took you up on your offer. Understand your point though.
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no....I said on a constant marketing price....such as if I call or any players call and they say I want the one I saw on az then they will only pay 50 and no more. know what I mean....not build a 200 jp for 50 and it's a one shot thing....

maybe I should add ...

that we make 10 of these jp and sell for 50 and that's all
 
DoubleD said:
It wasn't intended as a snide remark, more about my agreeing with you in a jovial way. I've always joked with my friends that having a tomahawk head that screwed onto a butt would be great for those less savory pool halls.

good luck.

dld
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Screw this crap........

lets all just post JP for every one to see and see which players like and how much they would pay for it.....

how about this......
 
DoubleD said:
Yes, correct. Screw this crap. I attempted to make some points on your post and you are childish in return.

Mr. Zinzola showed you some of his joint protectors and offered to pay you to make some of similar quality to match his cues. You attacked him in return.

So I will answer your question. Mr. Zinzola showed a set of beautiful jp's that perfectly match a cue he made. If I bought that cue and wanted jp's for it I would have paid $300 for those jp's.

The jp's you have shown (none) I would pay nothing for.

I just answered the exact question you asked, I will assume you are satisfied and would love to have you respond as such.

dld
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ok.....read first post.... I said in 2weeks. I have to make them first sir.....I am out. And since I am doing something new......I have to design it also.
 
Man, I go away for a couple hours and come back to this! I wish I had known, I'd have my popcorn handy.

And to answer the question, I can't justify paying $300 for joint protectors. Not that they're not worth that much, because they are stunning. I just couldn't bring myself to spend that kind of money on them. Maybe I'm way off, but I'd drop $80 on the ones Tony pictured.

I paid between $40-$60 for each set mine, and they're worth it ... and then some. Now, bring on the popcorn!
 
My offer stands. If you can make them, I will provide the materials and pay you to make them. You will be responsible for any tools required to get them done.

The price posted above might be the price from my website, I honestly don't remember. If I am making a cue over a certain price, I normally don't charge for the Joint Protectors.

The people buying a basic cue who don't want to pay for them are welcome to buy the cheap delrin caps or have somebody else make them. I would prefer to never have to make a set again, but I also know people want them, so if they are ordered, I will make them.

It does take more than a couple of hours. It's about an hour to cut the pockets, plus the time to make the pieces. It's also several hours for the glue to dry on the ring that's attached to the butt piece and several more hours for the glue holding the Ivory tops in place to dry. I wouldn't accept them if they are glued up with 5 minute epoxy.

A .012" cutter is roughly $20 from precise bits. It doesn't take much to break a cutter this small, so unless you have a very accurate cnc machine and spindle, it's probably not worth your while to try them.

I use a .015" and a .012" to cut out the parts and a .012" to cut all of the pockets. The .015" bits are close to the same cost. That's $40 in cutters alone provided you don't break one. The phenolic will wear them out quicker than the silver will, so you might be able to make 2 sets before you need to get a new cutter.

Unless you're using gold, the cost of the rest of the materials is irrelevant. It's the time involved.

You said joint protectors with simple ringwork or inlays and this is all these are, but I would not make them for $50 and I doubt you would either.

I need a set for next week. Do you want to give them a shot?
 
I am going to offer you one more piece of advice and then I am done with this thread. If you want to make my joint protectors, you can email me or PM me.

You are not the first person to come on the forums saying cue makers charge too much for their cues, joint protectors or anything else and that you can do it cheaper. You're not going to make very many friends that way and you might need help at some point down the road. I doubt you know it all. I don't know anybody that thinks they do. If you show some respect, more will be willing to help you out later on if you get stuck.

If you can make a cue or a joint protector cheaper and want to make it, the just do it and put it up for sale. You don't have to come on here and insult everybody else. Everything for sale on here ranges in price from very cheap to very expensive. You say you'll do it for a certain price and there is probably somebody else willing to do it less.

Don't worry so much about what everybody else is doing. Just worry about yourself. I've seen photos of your cues and they look interesting. I'm sure you shouldn't have a problem selling them.
 
Tony Zinzola said:
I am going to offer you one more piece of advice and then I am done with this thread. If you want to make my joint protectors, you can email me or PM me.

You are not the first person to come on the forums saying cue makers charge too much for their cues, joint protectors or anything else and that you can do it cheaper. You're not going to make very many friends that way and you might need help at some point down the road. I doubt you know it all. I don't know anybody that thinks they do. If you show some respect, more will be willing to help you out later on if you get stuck.

If you can make a cue or a joint protector cheaper and want to make it, the just do it and put it up for sale. You don't have to come on here and insult everybody else. Everything for sale on here ranges in price from very cheap to very expensive. You say you'll do it for a certain price and there is probably somebody else willing to do it less.

Don't worry so much about what everybody else is doing. Just worry about yourself. I've seen photos of your cues and they look interesting. I'm sure you shouldn't have a problem selling them.
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TAP, TAP, TAP! Isn't this how EW started out? :thud:
 
all i know is I have never sweatted $$$ so hard in my life,<---even when I was broke or like now going broke(again)



who gives a rat's ass about JP's that your not going to buy, build or use?

I have spent $2500 on a set of JP's and I'm still alive and never showed them to anyone or used them. my point is it just dosent matter, my JP's are useless as the next set.


nice work Tony!!!!
 
Fatboy said:
all i know is I have never sweatted $$$ so hard in my life,<---even when I was broke or like now going broke(again)



who gives a rat's ass about JP's that your not going to buy, build or use?

I have spent $2500 on a set of JP's and I'm still alive and never showed them to anyone or used them. my point is it just dosent matter, my JP's are useless as the next set.


nice work Tony!!!!
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One question Eric. Who in the hell is selling $2,500 joint protectors?!
 
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