joint question

R

rplive01

Registered
Want to buy a new predator z-2 shaft for my buffalo cue. Now the website says the buffalo cue has a 5/16 x 18 Nipple joint. Now the question is: does the nipple part mean anything special here? Does this fit with the predator shaft?

Here is a picture of the buffalo cue joint https://someimage.com/ywYW5Hp
 
Kim Bye said:
Looks like a regular 5/16-18 to me.
Z2 is discontinued, Z3 is the new model.
Click to expand...

The z-2 looks to have a flat flaced surface while my buffalo cue has this little ring sticking out. Is this what they call a piloted shaft? and does it make a diffrence?
 
Last edited:
rplive01 said:
The z-2 looks to have a flat flaced surface while my buffalo cue has this little ring sticking out. Is this what they call a pilloted shaft? and does it make a diffrence?
Click to expand...

Yes that's a 5/16 18 piloted shaft. Lots of opinions as to whether it makes a difference or not. Most of the time it does not but sometimes it does :)

Mario
 
Mcues said:
Yes that's a 5/16 18 piloted shaft. Lots of opinions as to whether it makes a difference or not. Most of the time it does not but sometimes it does :)

Mario
Click to expand...

I found this comment
You cannot use any 5/18-18 shaft. If it doesn't have the pilot, the insert will be unsupported and pull out of the shaft when tightening the joint
Is this correct?
 
rplive01 said:
I found this comment
You cannot use any 5/18-18 shaft. If it doesn't have the pilot, the insert will be unsupported and pull out of the shaft when tightening the joint
Is this correct?
Click to expand...

With all due respect to who-ever said it will pull the insert out with out a pilot.....If an insert were to pull out, it would because the installer F***ked up, not that the pilot was missing, who ever said that has to be the most miss-informed person ever.The only contact between pilot and butt joint is on the sides, so the statement that the insert would pull out is laughable, as the bottom of a pilot never touches the bottom of the cavity, ever, so pullout would happen even without a pilot. Amazing what people think.
The intent of a pilot is ONLY to align the joint on the last few turns so the joint will feel smooth on the outside and be symmetrical from the butt to the shaft. This was because the 5/16-18 and the 5/16-14 pins are loose, sloppy fitting screws. That is what they had to work with in the old times. They are basically outdated joint pins, IMO. Most brands of cues nowadays the pilot never touches anything, so basically useless, unless it's a custom cue where the builder took the time to really do it properly. A pilot is supposed to touch all the way around the inner circle on the butt when the last few turns are done so that everything stays symmetrical. Using a flat-faced 5/16-18 shaft on a butt that allows for a pilot, will NOT be a problem at all.
Hope this helps..
DAve
 
Excellent post David and totally spot-on regarding pilots, both yesteryear's and today's.
Your depiction of the insert 'pulling out', also spot-on but never underestimate a 'hack'.
Regarding pins however, both 14 & 18 tpi, I don't agree that both are now obsolete.
Advancements in machining technology have improved the tolerance levels of the pins
to the point where now the PILOT is about to become obsolete and for the most part, already has.
There are still a few exceptions but they are becoming fewer by the day.
Schon and notably Schuler will probably retain the pilot forever.
Schon has changed the design of their pilot 3 times that I'm aware of,
depending on who their lead cue-maker is at the time. The principle and function remain the same.

The advance in pin technology may be getting a little out of hand, particularly the 14 tpi.
Recent forum discussion has revealed that there are now at least 3 versions of the 14 pin.
Typical 5/16 (.3125"), Schon @ .302" and Schuler @ .298". Why, I have no idea.
Most likely an attempt towards exclusivity. Or possibly just to be evil.
If there's a way to muck-up the standard, cue-makers will find it.

Your post has been so descriptive that if it were up to me, it would be a 'sticky'.
Thank you.
 
KJ Cues said:
Excellent post David and totally spot-on regarding pilots, both yesteryear's and today's.
Your depiction of the insert 'pulling out', also spot-on but never underestimate a 'hack'.
Regarding pins however, both 14 & 18 tpi, I don't agree that both are now obsolete.
Advancements in machining technology have improved the tolerance levels of the pins
to the point where now the PILOT is about to become obsolete and for the most part, already has.
There are still a few exceptions but they are becoming fewer by the day.
Schon and notably Schuler will probably retain the pilot forever.
Schon has changed the design of their pilot 3 times that I'm aware of,
depending on who their lead cue-maker is at the time. The principle and function remain the same.

The advance in pin technology may be getting a little out of hand, particularly the 14 tpi.
Recent forum discussion has revealed that there are now at least 3 versions of the 14 pin.
Typical 5/16 (.3125"), Schon @ .302" and Schuler @ .298". Why, I have no idea.
Most likely an attempt towards exclusivity. Or possibly just to be evil.
If there's a way to muck-up the standard, cue-makers will find it.

Your post has been so descriptive that if it were up to me, it would be a 'sticky'.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Mezz United Joint, thats a variation of 5/16-14 too...
Btw. Joss uses a pilot on their shafts. They use a phenolic insert instead of the more common brass insert.
 
Last edited:
Kim Bye said:
Don't forget Mezz United Joint, thats a variation of 5/16-14 too...
Btw. Joss uses a pilot on their shafts. They use a phenolic insert instead of the more common brass insert.
Click to expand...


Hi Kim
So true. The Mezz is a full 5/16. I have only seen 2 others that full. Black Boar and Tascarella. The new Joss cues are next at .310.
 
rplive01 said:
I found this comment
You cannot use any 5/18-18 shaft. If it doesn't have the pilot, the insert will be unsupported and pull out of the shaft when tightening the joint
Is this correct?
Click to expand...

Not true, unless the insert was not installed properly to start with.

Mario
 
KJ Cues said:
Excellent post David and totally spot-on regarding pilots, both yesteryear's and today's.
Your depiction of the insert 'pulling out', also spot-on but never underestimate a 'hack'.
Regarding pins however, both 14 & 18 tpi, I don't agree that both are now obsolete.
Advancements in machining technology have improved the tolerance levels of the pins
to the point where now the PILOT is about to become obsolete and for the most part, already has.
There are still a few exceptions but they are becoming fewer by the day.
Schon and notably Schuler will probably retain the pilot forever.
Schon has changed the design of their pilot 3 times that I'm aware of,
depending on who their lead cue-maker is at the time. The principle and function remain the same.

The advance in pin technology may be getting a little out of hand, particularly the 14 tpi.
Recent forum discussion has revealed that there are now at least 3 versions of the 14 pin.
Typical 5/16 (.3125"), Schon @ .302" and Schuler @ .298". Why, I have no idea.
Most likely an attempt towards exclusivity. Or possibly just to be evil.
If there's a way to muck-up the standard, cue-makers will find it.

Your post has been so descriptive that if it were up to me, it would be a 'sticky'.
Thank you.
Click to expand...

Evil would be my vote.
 
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