Jump Cues Suck! Period.

[lost]

I think they call that the belly putter. They also have this thing called a sand wedge that wasn't around in the early years of golf. Shame on Ping for coming out with perimeter weighted irons. And then you have those despicable metal woods. To top it all off, they now have those hybrid clubs of which just about every touring pro carries one or more in their bags.

You know what? All those things have been good for golf as they have helped the casual players enjoy the game more. And they've helped the equipment manufacturers who directly, and indirectly, put millions of dollars into the players hands.

Comparing golf which is designed to be played in 3 dimensions with the ball often flying through the air is a stretch.
Croquet is a better comparison to pool. I hope nobody in a pool forum is going to belittle the sport of croquet.

Oh and the belly putters have been banned in professional competition. With all the other advancements in club head design, handicaps haven't changed.
Advancements in golf club design is more comparable to LD shafts on a pool cue...not a fundamental thing like jumping balls

Reading this thread I know I'm in a minority, but jumping balls in nice billiard rooms was a great way to get ushered out, and I'm not THAT old. Bar-room coin op tables, and clowning around...yep go for it...jump away. You can always claim you were loaded.

Too me...jumping balls makes pool look the equivalent of checkers more than chess.

Flame away. I can take it.

 

[sfleinen]

Well.....it was a team effort of sorts but I was the one responsible for making it happen.

The cue itself with the flared end was created by Hans Joerg Bertram in Germany. A version of that was being made by Franz Hauber when I made the decision to make them in Taiwan. I had been bringing five or so Haubers to the USA at Franz's request for several years previously.

Then when we decided to make them in Taiwan we paid Franz 100 cues for providing the tips. We brought 400 cues to the BCA Vegas event in 1998.

There is more to the story as to WHY I did this because I was pretty ambivalent about jump cues before deciding to mass produce them. But once I did I decided to learn how to use them and eventually found out that I would have to learn how to teach people to use them. I spent hours on my table at the shop figuring out the proper way to jump with precision and created a demonstration routine.

Then when we got to the show I quickly found out that some people just couldn't get it...they absolutely could NOT pick up a jump cue and jump balls. I had to teach them. Some people I even had to give a lesson on proper stroke techniques (ironic I know) before they could begin to address the ball the right way.

So basically I was highly immersed and incvested in this topic.

Now, I don't sell jump cues....but I do find it amusing that the topic of "I hate jump cues and they are destroying pool" continues to pop up several times a year.

For those that don't know, I can attest to John's jump-cue/jumping prowess. A couple years ago at an SBE, while dorking around in the Sterling booth on that Diamond table with the gaff Fury cloth (those that know what I'm talking about, know this table with the jet-black cloth with fluorescent white stars, blue-white lightning bolts, and the name "Fury" in bright red emblazoned across it), John was demonstrating some jump "trick shots." One of them was in the game of 8-ball, where you're on the 8-ball, but left yourself very badly on it -- the 8-ball is close to the side pocket, but has a ball plastered up against it on the side you want to contact to put that 8-ball in the side pocket. I'd say 4 out of 5 times, John was able to jump the cue ball into the top of the 8-ball (up and over the obstructing ball that is plastered up against the 8-ball), contact the "top" of the 8-ball, and pocket it in the side pocket without touching the obstructing ball. Essentially landing the cue ball "on the 8-ball's head" to pocket it, and did so, 4 out of 5 times with different angles and distances, without scratching either.

He did a couple of others, but the one described above stood out as one that obviously required a TON of practice and skill.

So count me as one that considers the use of the jump cue as a skill. Sure, I see the point of those that lament the loss of the *requirement* to have to kick, but as with anything, mad skillz can be had no matter what it is or the tool.

-Sean <-- still thinks jump cues should remain against the rules in one pocket and 14.1

 

[EL'nino]

'I would bet 11/7 of all pros would take to the skies.'

I think that this is true (only) because they are allowed. Very few pro's are in favor of jump cues.

 

[JB Cases]

Comparing golf which is designed to be played in 3 dimensions with the ball often flying through the air is a stretch.
Croquet is a better comparison to pool. I hope nobody in a pool forum is going to belittle the sport of croquet.

Oh and the belly putters have been banned in professional competition. With all the other advancements in club head design, handicaps haven't changed.
Advancements in golf club design is more comparable to LD shafts on a pool cue...not a fundamental thing like jumping balls

Reading this thread I know I'm in a minority, but jumping balls in nice billiard rooms was a great way to get ushered out, and I'm not THAT old. Bar-room coin op tables, and clowning around...yep go for it...jump away. You can always claim you were loaded.

Too me...jumping balls makes pool look the equivalent of checkers more than chess.

Flame away. I can take it.

Checkers is a high level activity. Stan Shuffett's father was a champion who wrote several books on professional checkers play.

http://books.google.com/books/about/World_Class_Checkers.html?id=yIHEtgAACAAJ

Just saying.....because I made the mistake of comparing checkers to chess once and was soundly corrected by Stan

I wouldn't be mad if jumping was eliminated totally. But to single out the jump cue as a demon and allow jumping with a full cue is the wrong thinking.

 

[JB Cases]

'I would bet 11/7 of all pros would take to the skies.'

I think that this is true (only) because they are allowed. Very few pro's are in favor of jump cues.

Got a source to cite on this? I know a lot of pros personally and a lot of them have gotten jump cues from me - that they paid for. I have never noticed any overriding animosity towards jump cues among the pros.

 

[EL'nino]

They bought them because they would be at a disadvantage if they didn't have one and their opponent did. Ask the next 20 pro players you see "do you think jump cues should be allowed in a pro event?" I'd be surprised if more than one said yes.

 

[sfleinen]

Got a source to cte on this?
[...]

You have cte on the brain, John.


-Sean

 

[Pidge]

I don't mind jump cues, I use them when needed. I'm not a fan of jumping in general though. I would rather someone kick at a ball and make it than someone jump over a ball. Kicking at a ball and intentionally potting it is far harder as a skill than jumping and trying to make a ball. Would banning jumping in professional pool make a difference? Not much imo, most pros are excellent kickers aswel as jumpers. It would make a difference in leagues though. Most at league standard can jump with ease, few can kick with ease and accuracy to make a ball. Just what I think.

 

[lost]

Checkers is a high level activity. Stan Shuffett's father was a champion who wrote several books on professional checkers play.

http://books.google.com/books/about/World_Class_Checkers.html?id=yIHEtgAACAAJ

Just saying.....because I made the mistake of comparing checkers to chess once and was soundly corrected by Stan

I wouldn't be mad if jumping was eliminated totally. But to single out the jump cue as a demon and allow jumping with a full cue is the wrong thinking.

I get it. All games to be the best are difficult at their core, What makes one more difficult are beating the people that also play the game. Some games/sports just have a lot bigger incentive (most often money) to be good in, so the opponents are going to be tougher. It's the big fish in a little pond phenomenon. Jim Brown was a heck of a lacrosse player, but even now lacrosse has very little money in it.

Oh, and yes I could jump with regular cues just fine...I just choked up and never gave it a thought.

BTW. There was a college professor in my town (that I only vaguely knew) that was one of the few American Grand Masters at that time...named Bryne if I recall. Off topic I know.

 

[JB Cases]

They bought them because they would be at a disadvantage if they didn't have one and their opponent did. Ask the next 20 pro players you see "do you think jump cues should be allowed in a pro event?" I'd be surprised if more than one said yes.

Why? No one forces a professional to use a jump cue. They can make a conscious choice to forgo all the shots that come with a jump cue.

After all when it's YOUR shot you don't have to jump. If there is no kick available then tie balls up.

To me a professional player uses all the tools available to the under the rules. They use jump cues, extensions, gloves, beekeeper outfits, specialized break cues, high level chalk, kicking systems, etc...

 

[hang-the-9]

All the pro jump cue arguments would fare better if not for the fact that almost every single pro when asked if jump cues should be allowed said "NO". The only reason they use them is because others do, not because they want the jump shot to be easy.

I can't actually think of a single TAR interview which I think asks that question to everyone, where the player said they would rather have jump cues than jump with their playing cue.

It's a gimic that only weak players should be proud to use. I see C and even B players act like they were the shit when they jump a ball when the only thing they accomplished was being able to pay $100 for a jump cue. My son when he was about 12 got his first jump cue. He was able to jump a full ball on his third try. Some skill shot that is when a 12 yr old can do it in 15 seconds of practice.

You play bad position and can't see the ball because you hooked yourself? Oh, wait I have a jump cue. Someone played a safe? Jump cue here I come, lets take a major benefit of safety play out of the game so people can buy another cue.

 

[Schwinn]

I believe jump cues are the worse thing ever introduced to the game of pool. The only thing i like about them is laughing at someones unsuccessful attempt at using one. I do believe that jumping with your playing cue is ok. What do you think?

For what it's worth, I agree with you. Ban jump cues.

 

[EL'nino]

I have been asking pros this question for years and have heard it asked to them in countless interviews and I have never heard one of them say that they believe it should be a part of high level competition.

 

[JB Cases]

I taught a person to kick in one minute. Clearly the kick is not a skill shot if a person can hit one in a minute.

 

[JB Cases]

I let this guy watch a video on how to draw his ball and he did it the first try. Chalk should be banned