Jump stroke evolution

Jimmorrison

Jimmorrison

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It seems that all of the pros have gone to a kind of over the shoulder, side arm, type of stroke for jump shots. This started about 3 years ago, maybe? Now, virtually all of them are doing it. No dart stroke, no underhand stroke, even for full length shots. I tried it for a bit, and it seemed really awkward. Difficult to get any real acceleration. Watching the recent big tournaments, they are all using the same stroke, with excellent results. Why the change? How to execute?
 
If you search Fedor Gorst jump stroke, you will see some good examples. He's good at it, but they all do it, the same stroke. It used to be the dart stroke, for tight jumps. The jacked up, underhand stroke, for long jumps. Not anymore, they all use the same stroke, for all jumps.
 
First, the sidewinder stroke is a deadly accurate everyday pool stroke. With a jumpshot, you get the required elevation without cramping anything. In a possibly related vein, the prosthetic bridge stroke used to be taught as an inverted side stroke with the elbow out and arm parallel to the table.
 
Maybe the pros don't believe in "different strokes for different folks".

...OR...

Maybe they found a way to add Consistency ?
 
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I don't know that I agree that there's been any significant "evolution" or change…

People have been using that stroke for as long as I can remember, before the advent of dedicated jump cues. It's much more effective with a full length cue.

At least from my memory, the dart stroke actually came later, when lightweight, shorty jumpers came into vogue.
 
I think your memory is pretty good. I looked at a bunch of vids, some older, some newer. Dr. Dave has one from 12 years ago. Neither he nor Bob, is the shooter. The guy uses this side arm stroke, on every shot. No matter the length of the shot, or the distance to the obstructing ball. Many other vids didn’t mention the side arm stroke at all. Some sited it as a somewhat awkward alternative, when you needed more elevation. Either way, I can’t remember the last time I saw a top player use anything but this stroke, on any type of jump. Maybe because the jump shot has led to increased levels of safety play? No one is leaving much room, the higher elevation is needed. I think it’s worth practicing.
 
To me (a dart jump shooter) it looks like a dart stroke where the cue does not have to go over the shoulder, allowing for longer jumps.
An alternate viewpoint is that this is the standard jump shot without having to put the upper body in a difficult position. you get the cue angle by (essentially) chicken winging it.
 
MitchAlsup said:
To me (a dart jump shooter) it looks like a dart stroke where the cue does not have to go over the shoulder, allowing for longer jumps.
An alternate viewpoint is that this is the standard jump shot without having to put the upper body in a difficult position. you get the cue angle by (essentially) chicken winging it.
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My buddy Josh points out to me regularly that he very, very, very rarely sees a top pro use a dart stroke. In years of competition we have only seen it a few times in very extenuating circumstances. But at the amateur level you see it all over.

You have to do what works best for you, but the evidence pretty strongly points to the side arm being advantageous.
 
Tin Man said:
My buddy Josh points out to me regularly that he very, very, very rarely sees a top pro use a dart stroke. In years of competition we have only seen it a few times in very extenuating circumstances. But at the amateur level you see it all over.

You have to do what works best for you, but the evidence pretty strongly points to the side arm being advantageous.
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I use it with a shaft only. It so far, is clumsy (freehand) but it will clear obstacles like nobody's business. I have a regular jump/break which stays at home. I think it's too heavy with all the connectors. I've tried a Frog and that was effortless. I think a 40" one piece CF jumper would be perfect.
 
Interesting thread! I've been messing around with this stroke since reading it. For long distance jumps it's deadly accurate. It's like the underhand jump is crossed with the dart. For short shots, where you have to get up in the air fast I don't really like it. It might just be that I need to learn it better, but on those short/high shots it feels very uncomfortable.

I could see using this stroke full time on longer jumps after sufficient practice, still undecided on the short jumps.

EDIT: I have a normal short jumper (the dedicated one with the flare on the end). I feel if the jump cue were a little longer you could open up and not be as cramped. Maybe this stroke is an older one (full cues) being revisited now that new jump cues are getting longer?
 
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If you can keep the cue-arm line straight, like in a regular stroke, that’s got to be better for aim than the side-arm. But the side-arm provides more freedom of movement to elevate the cue. The in-line stroke requires some contortion when you’ve got to elevate the cue more than a moderate amount.
 
Well, AZBilliards does it again. What a great thread.

I've been jumping all my life trying to keep my cue as close to under my body as I can, avoiding any type of side arm as much as possible. I always assumed that the closer to my normal stance and technique the better. I probably tried side arming years ago, struggled, and didn't pursue it much after that.

I guess I never really noticed how all the top players side arm jump. This thread made me try it out again. I couldn't believe it. I started raining in table length jumps, straight, cuts to the left and right, spot shot jumps, etc. I made 7-8 in a row and had to stop because I was so excited I was afraid it would go away and I'd be heart broken. I'm regrouping and going back for round two. All I know is that I was jumping pretty good on half court jumps but distance was killing me, and now the ball is going where I am looking.

Thanks for calling this to my attention!
 
Tin Man said:
Well, AZBilliards does it again. What a great thread.

I've been jumping all my life trying to keep my cue as close to under my body as I can, avoiding any type of side arm as much as possible. I always assumed that the closer to my normal stance and technique the better. I probably tried side arming years ago, struggled, and didn't pursue it much after that.

I guess I never really noticed how all the top players side arm jump. This thread made me try it out again. I couldn't believe it. I started raining in table length jumps, straight, cuts to the left and right, spot shot jumps, etc. I made 7-8 in a row and had to stop because I was so excited I was afraid it would go away and I'd be heart broken. I'm regrouping and going back for round two. All I know is that I was jumping pretty good on half court jumps but distance was killing me, and now the ball is going where I am looking.

Thanks for calling this to my attention!
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👍
 
Tin Man said:
Well, AZBilliards does it again. What a great thread.

I've been jumping all my life trying to keep my cue as close to under my body as I can, avoiding any type of side arm as much as possible. I always assumed that the closer to my normal stance and technique the better. I probably tried side arming years ago, struggled, and didn't pursue it much after that.

I guess I never really noticed how all the top players side arm jump. This thread made me try it out again. I couldn't believe it. I started raining in table length jumps, straight, cuts to the left and right, spot shot jumps, etc. I made 7-8 in a row and had to stop because I was so excited I was afraid it would go away and I'd be heart broken. I'm regrouping and going back for round two. All I know is that I was jumping pretty good on half court jumps but distance was killing me, and now the ball is going where I am looking.

Thanks for calling this to my attention!
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Will you send some photos of this from various angles. This post is the first time for me also. Many thanks.
 
If you search “Fedor Gorst jump shot “ one of the top results will be a top ten airborne video. This shows examples of the stroke. He uses it every time
 
I've tried the side-arm method (after years of somewhat competent at best jacked up underhand) and I could never deliver a straight cue that way. I could get air without much problem, but I was always unintentionally masse-ing the cueball so it would spin off line by the time it got to the object ball. Are there instructional videos on how to use this technique properly?
 
Rocket354 said:
I've tried the side-arm method (after years of somewhat competent at best jacked up underhand) and I could never deliver a straight cue that way. I could get air without much problem, but I was always unintentionally masse-ing the cueball so it would spin off line by the time it got to the object ball. Are there instructional videos on how to use this technique properly?
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The timing of this thread is perfect because I have been working on a video dealing with this and related topics. I should have it done in a couple of days. I'll post it here when it is available. In the meantime, much of the advice here also applies to the sidearm stroke:

 
dr_dave said:
The timing of this thread is perfect because I have been working on a video dealing with this and related topics. I should have it done in a couple of days. I'll post it here when it is available. In the meantime, much of the advice here also applies to the sidearm stroke:

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Very much looking forward to your input. I have been working on this, to no avail. Better results with what I was doing previously. Gorst doesn’t even appear to use his wrist, he just kind of drops the cue, down onto the cue ball. So far, I can’t finesse it, I have to power it. I’m determined to learn this, it’s the best way to jump.
 
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