Just had to post this...
- Thread starter Kim Bye
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He doesn't know what he's talking about, though. The meter was supposed to be related to the size of the Earth...and the measurement was actually off, so the meter is at least as arbitrary as the inch.
The nautical mile IS related to the size of the Earth (or at least it was before SI nuts defined it in terms of meters and rounded it off) and has nothing to do with traditional imperial measure. It's used for naval and aircraft navigation because it's incredibly convenient.
The meter is now precisely defined in terms of the speed of light, and the inch is now precisely defined as 25.4mm. Sooooo, the inch is precisely defined in terms of the speed of light.
He doesn't know what he's talking about, though. The meter was supposed to be related to the size of the Earth...and the measurement was actually off, so the meter is at least as arbitrary as the inch.
The nautical mile IS related to the size of the Earth (or at least it was before SI nuts defined it in terms of meters and rounded it off) and has nothing to do with traditional imperial measure. It's used for naval and aircraft navigation because it's incredibly convenient.
The meter is now precisely defined in terms of the speed of light, and the inch is now precisely defined as 25.4mm. Sooooo, the inch is precisely defined in terms of the speed of light.
The metric system is all based on the meter.
And this is just covering the distances. 
There are more measures in the imperial system with e.g. weight systems. While I was actively boxing in England as a student, I totally lost ground as my opponents were weight in pounds, stones and ounces. ... and the poor Germans like me just had kilos.
It still amazes me, how someone can keep up with all this fractions and factors.
... and I will go and do something serious now - like fishing ...
Gerhard
There are more measures in the imperial system with e.g. weight systems. While I was actively boxing in England as a student, I totally lost ground as my opponents were weight in pounds, stones and ounces. ... and the poor Germans like me just had kilos.
It still amazes me, how someone can keep up with all this fractions and factors.
... and I will go and do something serious now - like fishing ...
Gerhard
And this is just covering the distances.
There are more measures in the imperial system with e.g. weight systems. While I was actively boxing in England as a student, I totally lost ground as my opponents were weight in pounds, stones and ounces. ... and the poor Germans like me just had kilos.
It still amazes me, how someone can keep up with all this fractions and factors.
... and I will go and do something serious now - like fishing ...
Gerhard
You can't use decimal with Imperial measure? You can't use fractions with metric? You never say, "It's about 1/2 a meter wide?". It's a choice to mix units, such as lbs and ounces, or inches and miles. You can say, "It weighs 25.7 lbs."
I've studied this a great deal. There is very, very little advantage to the metric system outside of engineering, and even the engineering advantages are somewhat dubious.
The reason why the metric system is "better" is that it all units relate to one another in multiples of 10. Thus, when converting a 3.654 kilometers into meters you just have to move the decimal point whereas converting 2.284 miles into feet you have to do actual math. The less complicated your conversions the less potential for mistakes when doing the calculations.
This is very helpful when dealing with very large or very small numbers.
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Huge advantage in the medical field. Drug calculations and unit conversions for example are much simpler.
Also in the biological and physical sciences it has a great advantage.
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You can just as easily do the same with inches, for example. There's no need to use feet AND inches. That's a choice. I never do that. Only architects and surveyors do that because it's tradition.
I'm not doubting you, but could you explain this? I've tried very hard to understand the inherent advantages of the metric system and the only one I see is that you traditionally use 10x prefixes in front of the basic units so you don't have to use scientific notation. There's no reason that couldn't be done with imperial units. Believe me, I'm an engineer with a pretty solid background in math and physics. I do know some of the advantages of metric, but I think it's way overblown and has nothing really to do with the metric system itself, but rather with the notation.
While there IS something of an advantage that the cc, for example, is neatly defined in terms of a cubic meter, and the fluid once is a screwy if you define it in terms of a cubic inch, I honestly can't remember that ever being particularly helpful.
A great deal of engineering is still done with imperial units, and it's not an impediment because people don't mix all these strange units with each other. They use inches, just like someone else would use meters. Who uses furlongs? Amish farmers?
So here is an example where metric units are convenient. Let's say you're designing some sort of system with fluids. I don't know, a sewage treatment plant or something. Now you need to handle a certain amount of water (use whatever units you want, but let's just use ounces), and you need to size your pipes properly, take into account the amount of water that's in the pipes, and things like that. It's not convenient at all to do this with ounces because the relationship to volume (cubic inches, for example) is through a screwy conversion factor.
In metric units, it's easier because you use cc (or liters, or whatever) for measurement, and they're all related to cubic meters by an exponent, so the conversion is trivial.
And that's all well and good, but then you have to ask yourself why Earth would you then choose to work in fluid ounces when you can just as easily in^3 for EVERYTHING. It's a choice to mix units because you can just as easily work in sensible units.
The reason metric rose to prominence was that Napoleon wanted a more consistent unit of measure for things such as commerce. Change was in the air, as they say, so instead of simply standardizing the system that was already there, a completely different system was adopted, by Imperial fiat no less, and there was literally a day in France and her territories when Imperial became outlawed, and Imperial Metricp) became the standard.
But Great Britain was in the middle of an Industrial Revolution so to hell with making waves (and it's not like they're about to follow the French, anyway), and the United States was an ocean away and...well, we won so we're not about to switch. Anyhow, we were mostly farmers, beer brewers and hillbillies, so we're not going to care anyhow.
It's just units, guys. Kilo, nano, centi etc can be applied to ANY unit. It will never happen with Imperial units because they've been completely left behind. Science has defined very convenient "metric" units so that you can do many calculations without carrying around strange conversion factors and things like that, so there's a huge advantage there, and there's no point in fixing the Imperial system now. None of it has to do with conversions between miles and inches, or leagues or anything like that, though, because no one ever does that. It's much deeper than that and of great advantage if you use it in science, but somewhat dubious advantage elsewhere.
In metric units, it's easier because you use cc (or liters, or whatever) for measurement, and they're all related to cubic meters by an exponent, so the conversion is trivial.
And that's all well and good, but then you have to ask yourself why Earth would you then choose to work in fluid ounces when you can just as easily in^3 for EVERYTHING. It's a choice to mix units because you can just as easily work in sensible units.
The reason metric rose to prominence was that Napoleon wanted a more consistent unit of measure for things such as commerce. Change was in the air, as they say, so instead of simply standardizing the system that was already there, a completely different system was adopted, by Imperial fiat no less, and there was literally a day in France and her territories when Imperial became outlawed, and Imperial Metric
p) became the standard.But Great Britain was in the middle of an Industrial Revolution so to hell with making waves (and it's not like they're about to follow the French, anyway), and the United States was an ocean away and...well, we won so we're not about to switch. Anyhow, we were mostly farmers, beer brewers and hillbillies, so we're not going to care anyhow.
It's just units, guys. Kilo, nano, centi etc can be applied to ANY unit. It will never happen with Imperial units because they've been completely left behind. Science has defined very convenient "metric" units so that you can do many calculations without carrying around strange conversion factors and things like that, so there's a huge advantage there, and there's no point in fixing the Imperial system now. None of it has to do with conversions between miles and inches, or leagues or anything like that, though, because no one ever does that. It's much deeper than that and of great advantage if you use it in science, but somewhat dubious advantage elsewhere.
Who uses furlongs? Amish farmers?
Horse Racing!!!!
I'm not doubting you, but could you explain this? I've tried very hard to understand the inherent advantages of the metric system and the only one I see is that you traditionally use 10x prefixes in front of the basic units so you don't have to use scientific notation. There's no reason that couldn't be done with imperial units. Believe me, I'm an engineer with a pretty solid background in math and physics. I do know some of the advantages of metric, but I think it's way overblown and has nothing really to do with the metric system itself, but rather with the notation.
While there IS something of an advantage that the cc, for example, is neatly defined in terms of a cubic meter, and the fluid once is a screwy if you define it in terms of a cubic inch, I honestly can't remember that ever being particularly helpful.
A great deal of engineering is still done with imperial units, and it's not an impediment because people don't mix all these strange units with each other. They use inches, just like someone else would use meters. Who uses furlongs? Amish farmers?
Overblown? I cannot disagree, but that does not mean there is no advantage.
I have a pretty solid background in math and physics as well. :wink:
Can you tell me how much one cubic foot of water weighs? One gallon? One pint? One cubic inch? Without really thinking about it or doing any calculations?
Now tell me how much one liter of water weighs. And one cc. Easy, right?
What you can't remember being particularly helpful is in fact vital in medical practice. I teach my medical students that the most likely way they will kill a patient is fluid mismanagement, and that fluid is water. I'll bet anything the first patient they kill will be by fluid mismanagement.
Yes, it has to do with the notation. But also with conversions of units and parameters being much easier, such as volume and mass. It also has to do with standards. We all have to communicate efficiently, so we need to use the same units.
Of course...even in medicine there are some screwed up things...like a unit of blood...it's still really a pint! LOL
Look at a patient that is crashing.
Anybody with a strong background in math and knowledge of some basic physiological parameters can figure it out. They can do it in any units they like and use scientific notation if they like. The patient will be dead.
The physician figures it out in his head, fast. Or at most with some very basic calculations. And acts. NOW. So the patient is saved.
Even if you figure it out while the patient is still alive you will still have to convert all your units to the standards we use in order to figure out your diagnosis and interventions. Obviously that's about standards.
Believe me I understand where you are coming from. One of my current students is a former engineer that is now a first year resident in medicine. I work with her almost every day and we have discussed these matters at length. She really thought her engineering background would have helped her more in medicine. It really is of little value with the exception that she is comfortable with math.
I can tell you where your body water is, and in what concentrations at any given time or state, as well as predict how it will change as a state progresses or with particular interventions. Intracellular, extracellular, intravascular, extravascular, plasma, urine, CSF, arteries, veins, each individual organ, and more. The relative concentrations, flow, pH, and more. I know fluid parameters for normal, erect, supine, hungry, well fed, febrile, cardiogenic shock, septic shock shock, hypovolemic shock, neurogenic shock, exercising, sedentary, and far more. And I have to be able to know these things about any individual VERY FAST, take action VERY FAST, and communicate them to colleagues VERY FAST. And I do it all in metric.
Now, could I do that in other units, with scientific notation? Sure! But as I said, the patient will be dead. It's not intuitive enough or efficient enough, and all my interventions, (meds and fluids) are standardized in metric.
So, I am not saying you are wrong. And I am not saying it is not overblown. I do think the advantage might be more significant in some contexts than you might realize.
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Perfectly sums it up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWKTkOWC2K8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWKTkOWC2K8
No, that's why you use decimal instead of fractions. Has absolutely nothing to do with the metric system. Engineers use decimal with Imperial measurements.
Carpenters and woodworkers traditionally use fractions, and often continue to today. Why? Partly it's simply tradition, but it's a very convenient tradition if you're working with normal, carpenter size pieces, router bits and things like that. It's ridiculously easy to divide things in half and otherwise do math when you use base 2 fractions, so it's very convenient. If I want a 1/32" gap on either side, I trim off 1/16", for example. Savvy woodworkers use fractions or decimal depending on which is most convenient.
We're not the only ones. Japanese carpenters still use shaku even though they converted to metric decades ago.
And this is what I mean when I say that the guy in the original video (and second video) don't have the first clue what they're talking about. The real advantage of the metric system has absolutely nothing to do with fractions, or converting leagues to chains. It is a far, far deeper issue where fundamental units (length, force, power, energy, etc) are linked together in a way such that you don't need arbitrary conversion factors floating around. The decimal vs fraction notation is just that...notation. It has nothing to do with the importance of the metric system.
Of course that assumes that you use the right metric units, and there are several to choose from. It's a little odd how they did it, actually. If you use Meters, you then have to use Kilograms. How odd....to get it to work out right, you use 1 of one thing, and 1000 of another, because the gram is such a teeny, tiny unit compared to most things that are a meter in any dimension. Or you could choose to use centimeters and grams, and get a completely different set of "fundamental" units. LOL. Sound familiar? At least those are generally linked to each other by powers of 10, but you still need to remember WHICH power of 10. I guess it's an improvement.
But anyhow, if you do it right it all works out.
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The reason metric rose to prominence was that Napoleon wanted a more consistent unit of measure for things such as commerce. Change was in the air, as they say, so instead of simply standardizing the system that was already there, a completely different system was adopted, by Imperial fiat no less, and there was literally a day in France and her territories when Imperial became outlawed, and Imperial Metric
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hi John,
sorry, but the metric system was decided & defined during the french revolution , became official/universal in France in 1795 and not by Napoleon who was was crowned emperor in 1804...
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Napoleon spread it through Europe or it may well have died in France. Sorry if I wasn't clear. In some way, weights and measures actually contributed to the Revolution in tge first place. It's funny what people used to get upset about.
BTW, you do realize Napoleon's significance during the revolution?
Anyhow, it was "official" in 1799, after which Napoleon spread it to the rest of Europe. Napoleon overthrew the makeshift government in 1799.
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