Just love pool cuz there won't be any money

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onepocketchump

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Just got back from the poker site www.cardplayer.com

Just love pool for what it is and not what it is not nor ever will be. Pool will never be a big money and TV sport. Why not? Because NO ONE will ever have a shot at winning 7.5 million by only spending $11.

Something like 10 of the last 27 players got into the World Series of Poker through online tournaments or other promotions. Each of those players is guaranteed $350,000 or better.

We don't have a poolplayer alive that has made $350,000 in tournament winnings in a year, two or three years. Yet a guy gets in WSOP for $11 and makes it to where he gets $350,000 or more.

No one will ever qualify for the pool world championships sitting at home in their underwear.

Right NOW there are millioins of people wha can't draw their ball battling it out with other people on the net. Poker may just eclipse all other activity for participation.

So I propose we stop lamenting the poor state of pro pool and just enjoy the artistry of the game. Pool will never have a place among the highly paid sports. It will increase but not to the level we would like to see it at.

Just thoughts....

John
 
I don't know if pool will be a big money sport or not. And, for the sake of the players we all love, I hope it will.

But I will say this: there are advantages to the modesty of pool among other sports (I know, you'll hate me for saying this). At least from the amateur's point of view.

For one, even the most elite players in the game are generally quite personable and approachable. They are not sorrounded by bodyguards, groupies, or reporters; do not hide in limos with shaded windows; do not affect some bigger than life persona or wear make up for TV ads and photo shoots; nor are they beyond playing YOU if your wagering is right. All very human in scale.

Any pool fan has a fair shake in meeting Efren, but not many golf lovers will get to see Tiger Woods in person. Efren, like Keith McCready, and so many other congenial pool characters, are a product of a "poor" sport, and they are all the more interesting for it.

Maybe there's an off chance someday pool will make it big. And top professionals will live like basketball or football celebrities. That would be great!

But, come to think of it, I like pool just the way it is. If pros were celebrities, maybe I wouldn't be as captivated by them or even the game itself. Because I'm sure as heck not the kind of guy that'll elbow teenagers out of the way to get a hastily signed autograph.
 
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And it is the reason ...

That many pool players pick up on playing cards or poker while
they are waiting for a pool game. It helps them make a little money
as a 'second' hobby. Around 1 of my pool rooms I peruse, they
play hearts, pitch, poker, and dominoes for money besides the
Texas hold'em tournaments they come up with. The problem
with the little Texas hold'em tournaments is that they play everyday
and night for a month with the final winner winning a $100 or so,
and I can make that in 1 weekly pool tournament, and don't have
to drive 13 miles one way everyday for a month to play poker.
What are these room owners thinking? Now, if the Texas hold'em
payed a $1,000 or more, then it might be worth it.
 
lewdo26 said:
I don't know if pool will be a big money sport or not. And, for the sake of the players we all love, I hope it will.

But I will say this: there are advantages to the modesty of pool among other sports (I know, you'll hate me for saying this). At least from the amateur's point of view.

For one, even the most elite players in the game are generally quite personable and approachable. They are not sorrounded by bodyguards, groupies, or reporters; do not hide in limos with shaded windows; do not affect some bigger than life persona or wear make up for TV ads and photo shoots; nor are they beyond playing YOU if your wagering is right. All very human in scale.

Any pool fan has a fair shake in meeting Efren, but not many golf lovers will get to see Tiger Woods in person. Efren, like Keith McCready, and so many other congenial pool characters, are a product of a "poor" sport, and they are all the more interesting for it.

Maybe there's an off chance someday pool will make it big. And top professionals will live like basketball or football celebrities. That would be great!

But, come to think of it, I like pool just the way it is. If pros were celebrities, maybe I wouldn't be as captivated by them or even the game itself. Because I'm sure as heck not the kind of guy that'll elbow teenagers out of the way to get a hastily signed autograph.
Click to expand...

I agree with your post. The only thing that's a shame in this world is that 90% of the public won't ever realize the talent and hard work pro pool players put into thier game. They would rather worship some 7 footer who can dunk a basketball.
 
onepocketchump said:
(snip)
So I propose we stop lamenting the poor state of pro pool and just enjoy the artistry of the game. Pool will never have a place among the highly paid sports. It will increase but not to the level we would like to see it at.

Just thoughts....

John
Click to expand...

Why choose between the two? Why not love pool, per se, AND work to make it pay?

That's my choice.

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
Why not AND work to make it pay?

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...


Because it was tried in horseshoes, ping-pong, shuffleboard, and croquet and they've learned. It doesn't work, it's like beating a dead horse, and nobody gives a rats ass...not only pool players that might view an event, but especially everyone outside of pool. Put a good football helmet on Jeff, beating your head up against a wall will do damage to it real quick.
 
onepocketchump said:
Just got back from the poker site www.cardplayer.com

Just love pool for what it is and not what it is not nor ever will be. Pool will never be a big money and TV sport. Why not? Because NO ONE will ever have a shot at winning 7.5 million by only spending $11.

Something like 10 of the last 27 players got into the World Series of Poker through online tournaments or other promotions. Each of those players is guaranteed $350,000 or better.

We don't have a poolplayer alive that has made $350,000 in tournament winnings in a year, two or three years. Yet a guy gets in WSOP for $11 and makes it to where he gets $350,000 or more.

No one will ever qualify for the pool world championships sitting at home in their underwear.

Right NOW there are millioins of people wha can't draw their ball battling it out with other people on the net. Poker may just eclipse all other activity for participation.

So I propose we stop lamenting the poor state of pro pool and just enjoy the artistry of the game. Pool will never have a place among the highly paid sports. It will increase but not to the level we would like to see it at.

Just thoughts....

John
Click to expand...


John,

Tiffany Williamson is the perfect example of why Pool will never get to the level of Poker: Tiffany Williamson won her seat from and Internet entry according to the small bios on the last remaining 27 (it was posted yesterday) Miss. Williamson has only been playing poker since last October and has gotten eliminated from the WSOP in 15th place paying her a whopping $450,000.00 !!!

After 9-months of playing poker, she has made the equavlent of what a world champion class professional pool player has made in a 25 year carreer. Thats just amazing.

If pool wants to see a large fluxuation in numbers, then they should start hosting a 3-ball tournaments, make it a race to 15, shooting the balls in order (7,8,9) with 200 entry fees single or double elimination. I am sure alot of players will think they could take down the pros playing 3-ball. Take 3 balls , rack them, break them and see how many racks in a row you can run......

Like I stated in other threads, pool in the US needs a Chris Moneymaker, a good pool movie (The Hustler or Color of Money- Don't even think of mentioning that joke of movie- I cant even remember the name of it LOL) or the game or a new game, it must become easy that a lot of players have a shot at winning, not just the best players....
 
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lewdo26 said:
I don't know if pool will be a big money sport or not. And, for the sake of the players we all love, I hope it will.

But I will say this: there are advantages to the modesty of pool among other sports (I know, you'll hate me for saying this). At least from the amateur's point of view.

For one, even the most elite players in the game are generally quite personable and approachable. They are not sorrounded by bodyguards, groupies, or reporters; do not hide in limos with shaded windows; do not affect some bigger than life persona or wear make up for TV ads and photo shoots; nor are they beyond playing YOU if your wagering is right. All very human in scale.

Any pool fan has a fair shake in meeting Efren, but not many golf lovers will get to see Tiger Woods in person. Efren, like Keith McCready, and so many other congenial pool characters, are a product of a "poor" sport, and they are all the more interesting for it.

Maybe there's an off chance someday pool will make it big. And top professionals will live like basketball or football celebrities. That would be great!

But, come to think of it, I like pool just the way it is. If pros were celebrities, maybe I wouldn't be as captivated by them or even the game itself. Because I'm sure as heck not the kind of guy that'll elbow teenagers out of the way to get a hastily signed autograph.
Click to expand...


Your perspective on pool is a very true one. In light of that, pool lacks that "WOW" factor that the public or sporting public wants to see. If it wasnt for the money or the movie star quality that basketball (example) has, there wouldn't be such in influx of high schoolers trying to go pro to be on TV, makes millions of dollars at the age of 18 and have people hounding them for their autographs and being put on a pedistal in the public eye.

In Europe, Steve Davis is a star like a pro basket ball player is here in the US. Reyes, Strickland, Archer, Sigel and the rest of the top players don't even have the reconition of Minnesota Fats or Mosconi. Fats was and is more popular then anyone in the pool world, decades after his prime pool playing days (that has been discussed in another thread sometime ago).

There has to be something about pool that will make people go out and WANT to give it try. Pool needs that "anyone can play and play with the champions". It sounds strange, but from what I can see, thats what they seem want out there in the public eye..

Look at "reality" Tv... You can become a "HIlton", Be a clothing designer like "hilfiger" or....whatever junk you see today, "you" can do it in a few weeks and presto, your it!! That is why poker is so successful. It seems that the pool community keeps wanting to emphasise (bad spelling) how long and hard and difficult pool takes to be good at to compete with the best, this is true, but that is not what people want to here. And watching womens pool on espn, they keep taking about how difficult a straight in hanger is and how it took many years for them to learn how to do it....The public is a part of the Mcdonalds society- fast food, fast service and I want it now!

Just an obervation....
 
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drivermaker said:
Because it was tried in horseshoes, ping-pong, shuffleboard, and croquet and they've learned. It doesn't work, it's like beating a dead horse, and nobody gives a rats ass...not only pool players that might view an event, but especially everyone outside of pool. Put a good football helmet on Jeff, beating your head up against a wall will do damage to it real quick.
Click to expand...

lol. I get some saying I think too small and now you saying it's not worth it at all. This is why I do what I can in my little world and let the rest of it happen as it will. If I make a difference, even a little one, I'm good with that. I've tried the head beatings before in other areas and have learned my lesson.

But before you give up completely on profitable pool, remember what the farmer said when his cow died?..."She never did that before."

Jeff Livingston
 
JustPlay said:
John,

Tiffany Williamson is the perfect example of why Pool will never get to the level of Poker: Tiffany Williamson won her seat from and Internet entry according to the small bios on the last remaining 27 (it was posted yesterday) Miss. Williamson has only been playing poker since last October and has gotten eliminated from the WSOP in 15th place paying her a whopping $450,000.00 !!!

After 9-months of playing poker, she has made the equavlent of what a world champion class professional pool player has made in a 25 year carreer. Thats just amazing.

If pool wants to see a large fluxuation in numbers, then they should start hosting a 3-ball tournaments, make it a race to 15, shooting the balls in order (7,8,9) with 200 entry fees single or double elimination. I am sure alot of players will think they could take down the pros playing 3-ball. Take 3 balls , rack them, break them and see how many racks in a row you can run......

Like I stated in other threads, pool in the US needs a Chris Moneymaker, a good pool movie (The Hustler or Color of Money- Don't even think of mentioning that joke of movie- I cant even remember the name of it LOL) or the game or a new game, it must become easy that a lot of players have a shot at winning, not just the best players....
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I am talking about. Tiffany Williamson will inspire millions to flock to poker. Poker is NOT a "sport" nor will it ever be one. It is a game of great chance and also great skill.

There is no possible way on earth that a Tiffany Williamson will ever be 25th in the World Championships of Pool. There is however a chance that a John Barton could be. IF we had a grassroots system like poker does to send local players to the bigger tournaments then you would see a lot of really truly unknown players emerging, not road hustlers but normal working people who are talented at pool. This is HOW you feed a pro circuit that pays decent.

The millions of people who played in all the local tournaments and online tournaments are what fuels the WSOP and makes things like this possible.

What do we have? NOTHING. Would I get my ass in gear and play in a weekly tournament EVERY week if the points leader got to have a free shot at the US OPEN including expenses? You bet I would. I'd probably spend several hundred trying to get there. I'd definitely practice more and spend more on pool. Local pool players have NO INCENTIVE to get off the block. They are mercilessly preyed upon by the road players which does nothing to foster the idea that there is something worthwhile to being a POOL PLAYER. Hell, it is so ingrained in me that the first thing I do in a new place is size up the competition and check for action.

You want to see a well funded pro tour? How about taking $1 from every league player in the country every week and funding a NON-PROFIT organization that is set up to organize and sell a pro tour. That would be something along the lines of $200,000 a week IF you believe the various league's active membership claims. Do you believe that with an estimated 8-10 million dollar budget that we could have pool on TV in the right way? The World Poker Tour started with Much less. How would it go if those league players knew that they too could reach the pro tournaments through their participation? Every single one of us has a couple extra hundred a year to chase the dream of battling it out with the pros. And it doesn't hurt when it's extracted % or $10 at a time. But do you think the leagues would ever cooperate for something like that? LAUGH NOW. Poker works because EVERYONE Plays the same way all over the world under the same rules - only the money gets bigger with bigger tournaments.

Anyway, that's my 10ct idea. Hopefully someone reading this will make it into a million dollar reality.

John
 
TV poker players may make money......that's tv,there is a lot of interest...right now. How long will the poker craze last? Who knows.
Can people make a living playing poker? Yes, but only a few,most will "lose their shirts".
................Well I started a long post about pool .....but ya know what....F#%& it. Pool will sink or swim (pardon the pun).
 
onepocketchump said:
That is exactly what I am talking about. Tiffany Williamson will inspire millions to flock to poker. Poker is NOT a "sport" nor will it ever be one. It is a game of great chance and also great skill.

There is no possible way on earth that a Tiffany Williamson will ever be 25th in the World Championships of Pool. There is however a chance that a John Barton could be. IF we had a grassroots system like poker does to send local players to the bigger tournaments then you would see a lot of really truly unknown players emerging, not road hustlers but normal working people who are talented at pool. This is HOW you feed a pro circuit that pays decent.

The millions of people who played in all the local tournaments and online tournaments are what fuels the WSOP and makes things like this possible.

What do we have? NOTHING. Would I get my ass in gear and play in a weekly tournament EVERY week if the points leader got to have a free shot at the US OPEN including expenses? You bet I would. I'd probably spend several hundred trying to get there. I'd definitely practice more and spend more on pool. Local pool players have NO INCENTIVE to get off the block. They are mercilessly preyed upon by the road players which does nothing to foster the idea that there is something worthwhile to being a POOL PLAYER. Hell, it is so ingrained in me that the first thing I do in a new place is size up the competition and check for action.

You want to see a well funded pro tour? How about taking $1 from every league player in the country every week and funding a NON-PROFIT organization that is set up to organize and sell a pro tour. That would be something along the lines of $200,000 a week IF you believe the various league's active membership claims. Do you believe that with an estimated 8-10 million dollar budget that we could have pool on TV in the right way? The World Poker Tour started with Much less. How would it go if those league players knew that they too could reach the pro tournaments through their participation? Every single one of us has a couple extra hundred a year to chase the dream of battling it out with the pros. And it doesn't hurt when it's extracted % or $10 at a time. But do you think the leagues would ever cooperate for something like that? LAUGH NOW. Poker works because EVERYONE Plays the same way all over the world under the same rules - only the money gets bigger with bigger tournaments.

Anyway, that's my 10ct idea. Hopefully someone reading this will make it into a million dollar reality.

John
Click to expand...

Isn't this exactly what ol' what's-his-face* is doing with the N.U.T.S.?

Jeff Livingston

* I'll never forget ol' what's-his-face. :D
 
Personally, i'd say that pool takes way more talent than cards does. How else does one explain how rare it is for a novice poolplayer to win a big event, vs. the newbies that end up at final tables in cards.

I also think that people that play pool, KNOW that they are outclassed, or that they are not the favorite, and therefore, do not compete. They do not invest in themselves to try and make it at a big level, precisely because they know that they aren't top shelf.

That is one major difference between pool and cards.
Almost all cardplayers that i know, are VERY egotistical. Every single one of them, in their minds, is a world class card player. They all think that they are the smartest/sharpest.
They think they know all the angles, and therefore they think they are a force to be reckoned with. Granted, that in no way means that they actually play good cards. They just think they do. Nothing anyone can tell them will sway them from the fact that they THINK that they are stealing, and the only way for them to lose is a bad beat, or cold cards.
That is why it is a way more popular game than pool will ever be. It takes no physical talent, plus everyone playing cards thinks that they are a genius. It's one thing to know what the pool player should have done (play safe or shoot), it is a different matter altogether to actually execute it.
The card player is never faced with that, except in terms of positon, pot odds, tells, etc etc.

Plus, more people can relate to cards. When i'm at the gym, and pool is on ESPN, everyone watching is in aww. They have no idea what is going on. But when the world series is on, every guy, and even some of the girls has something to say about it. Whether it be the odds, or what they think can happen, or how many outs the player has, they all seem to know something about how the hand should be played, or how they would play it if it were them.

and in reality, a no name untried pool player, is going to get demolished playing in a major event, where that crackhead poker player has demonstrated time and time again, that it is very possible to get lucky and win.
That is why, pool will never have the same draw as poker.
Only talent prevails in pool. Not so in poker.
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Personally, i'd say that pool takes way more talent than cards does. How else does one explain how rare it is for a novice poolplayer to win a big event, vs. the newbies that end up at final tables in cards.

I also think that people that play pool, KNOW that they are outclassed, or that they are not the favorite, and therefore, do not compete. They do not invest in themselves to try and make it at a big level, precisely because they know that they aren't top shelf.

That is one major difference between pool and cards.
Almost all cardplayers that i know, are VERY egotistical. Every single one of them, in their minds, is a world class card player. They all think that they are the smartest/sharpest.
They think they know all the angles, and therefore they think they are a force to be reckoned with. Granted, that in no way means that they actually play good cards. They just think they do. Nothing anyone can tell them will sway them from the fact that they THINK that they are stealing, and the only way for them to lose is a bad beat, or cold cards.
That is why it is a way more popular game than pool will ever be. It takes no physical talent, plus everyone playing cards thinks that they are a genius. It's one thing to know what the pool player should have done (play safe or shoot), it is a different matter altogether to actually execute it.
The card player is never faced with that, except in terms of positon, pot odds, tells, etc etc.

Plus, more people can relate to cards. When i'm at the gym, and pool is on ESPN, everyone watching is in aww. They have no idea what is going on. But when the world series is on, every guy, and even some of the girls has something to say about it. Whether it be the odds, or what they think can happen, or how many outs the player has, they all seem to know something about how the hand should be played, or how they would play it if it were them.

and in reality, a no name untried pool player, is going to get demolished playing in a major event, where that crackhead poker player has demonstrated time and time again, that it is very possible to get lucky and win.
That is why, pool will never have the same draw as poker.
Only talent prevails in pool. Not so in poker.
Click to expand...


There is no question that pool takes more talent than luck and that pool for the most part takes years to get good at to compete with the best in the game. And for the most part, that what helps keeps the sporting public a little disinterested in professional pool here in the US.


But you are on the money when people of all levels of skill at poker have something to say about how a hand of poker should have been played. It would be nice if there was a pool game that everyone could play and compete against the pros and have a chance of success similar to what poker has accomplished. Because if the sporting public or the general public show great interest in professional pool, then so would potential sponsors..
 
chefjeff said:
Isn't this exactly what ol' what's-his-face* is doing with the N.U.T.S.?

Jeff Livingston

* I'll never forget ol' what's-his-face. :D
Click to expand...

Not quite. Mike is trying to definitely create a system where tournament players can rise through levels to professional play.

What I proposed is a way to have continual funding for a non-profit org dedicated to promoting the game and a professional tour. There is already enough money spent each WEEK on pool to get pool on TV LIVE done the right way. The only problem is that it's fragmented among so many who aren't willing to cooperate that this source of funds will probably never come to fruition.

Every one of these groups wants to OWN pool and the end result is that none of them will and all will struggle. Sure Rene' Pohlman and some of her staff as well as some at the BCA and some at the VNEA will make a decent living, some league ops are doing well but that's as far as it goes.

Who is to say HOW Many people would "really" like to play in leagues or in tournaments? I bet there are more people in this country who play pretty decent pool and think they are something but have never had the opportunity to play in a league or a tournament than there are who think and play similarly in any other sport. Now this pool of potential pool "players" is being sapped by poker which EVERYONE can play.

$11 to win over a million. I am going to play poker. :-))

John
 
For that matter, I watched beach volleyball today. They had about 4000 people in the stands, live coverage and major corporate sponsorship. For BEACH VOLLEYBALL.

And the list goes on.

John
 
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