Kick Shots and 2 or 3 Rail Position Shots

[ndakotan]

Are some kick shots and 2 or 3 rail position shots different on a bar table than a 9-foot table. I just watch a video where the guy shoot from a short rail 1 diamond from a corner diagonally to the long rail 1 diamond back from the cross corner with slight reverse english, and it goes back to him to the corner pocket (2 rail). This is on a 9-foot table with what appears to be fairly fast cloth. On my bar table, with a nap cloth, I have to shoot 2 diamonds back fromt the cross corner on the long rail to make the shot. Is this because the table is smaller, the rails different, or the cloth is different?

Also, if the cue ball is in the corner, the video shows the guy shooting to (in front of, or on the rail) the 2nd diamond back from the cross corner on the long rail and the CB goes 3 rails to the corner (same end of the table the guy is shooting from, opposite corner). On my table and most bar tables that I've played on, you have to aim at the 3rd diamond back from the cross corner to make this.

Finally, I have a book of position patterns and the 2 or 3 rail shots seem very difficult to duplicate on a bar table.

I know that when someone does a shot on a 9' table and they reference points on the rail that are inches from diamonds, the shot will not work on a bar table, but I thought all diamond references were universal, some play long and some play short.

Any thoughts? There is only one book I have found that specifically talks about bar room eight ball, but in this book the action is detailed for a heavy cue ball, which isn't used around here.

 

[ceebee]

I think the corner 5 Diamond System was developed on a 10 foot table. Yes, the points of aim are different as the table changes size. The points of aim also change as the Cue Ball moves to the 6, 7 & 8 position & also below 5, to the positions of 4, 3 & 2 as well. Learning the tracks to the corner on different size tables does help modify the system for the size table you are playing on. The cloth will make a difference too. Speed of shot, amount of english & humidity will also create different results.

The diamond system can be a great deal of help in kicking at a hidden object ball or in using the carom off the object ball to determine the Cue Ball's path for several rails.

That sounds like a lot of work... Good Luck...

 

[iasaxman]

Are some kick shots and 2 or 3 rail position shots different on a bar table than a 9-foot table. I just watch a video where the guy shoot from a short rail 1 diamond from a corner diagonally to the long rail 1 diamond back from the cross corner with slight reverse english, and it goes back to him to the corner pocket (2 rail). This is on a 9-foot table with what appears to be fairly fast cloth. On my bar table, with a nap cloth, I have to shoot 2 diamonds back fromt the cross corner on the long rail to make the shot. Is this because the table is smaller, the rails different, or the cloth is different?

Also, if the cue ball is in the corner, the video shows the guy shooting to (in front of, or on the rail) the 2nd diamond back from the cross corner on the long rail and the CB goes 3 rails to the corner (same end of the table the guy is shooting from, opposite corner). On my table and most bar tables that I've played on, you have to aim at the 3rd diamond back from the cross corner to make this.

I know that when someone does a shot on a 9' table and they reference points on the rail that are inches from diamonds, the shot will not work on a bar table, but I thought all diamond references were universal, some play long and some play short.

NDakotan,
The 2 rail shot you are talking about first is from a kicking DVD, and works flawlessly when you hit from the spot you mentioned...to the spot you mentioned...and the part you forgot(most important part) is hitting the cue ball so that it spins on an "11 o'clock" axis(if hitting from right bottom corner to top left corner...1 o'clock axis if hitting from left to right). The same for the 3 rail shot you mentioned. Both start point and aim point are correct, but you forgot the spin...1:30 english when hitting from right bottom corner to left middle diamond or 10:30 english for the reverse 3 railer.

I have shot both of these shots and the many variations of them and short of miscuing, always end up within range of getting a legal hit on the object ball. Once you know the system, you will always have a chance to make the hit and even pocket the ball.

By the way, those 2 shots are diagramed and explained excellently in Little Joe's DVD on Kicks. http://www.pooliq.net/ On the video, they are shot on a 9' table, but I haven't found a size table they don't work on...unless there is an oddball table that doesn't have the same length to width ratio. 7', 8' and 9' standard tables can all utilize Joe's system because the ratios are identical.