Kielwood name origin.

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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The name Kielwood or Kiel Wood has become to roasted or torrified maple what Kleenex has become to facial tissues. I believe in giving credit where credit its due. Kielwood is a trademark and name invented by Jeff Prather for the roasted maple he uses in cues and cue parts. People are using it to describe their roasted maple shafts whether they came from Prather Cue Parts or elsewhere. Using the Kielwood name for wood that did not come from Jeff without his permission is not a good policy to be following as cuemakers. I talked to Jeff about this issue at the Super Billiards Expo and he was very gracious and gave me permission to start using the name Kielwood. I also found out many using that trademark have not received permission. I cannot express how thankful I am to Jeff who is a direct competitor with myself in giving me permission to use the name Kielwood. I bought my first cue parts from his dad when I started in the 80's and still highly recommend their business to all that ask.
 
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PoolZeus

New member
Nice to know the origin, I was curious about that. Perhaps many thought as I did, erroneously, that it had a nautical origin (even knowing the KEEL of a boat is spelled thusly!) Also nice to see a good relationship on this forum.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I talked to Jeff about this issue at the Super Billiards Expo and he was very gracious and gave me permission to start using the name Kielwood. I also found out many using that trademark have not received permission. I cannot express how thankful I am to Jeff who is a direct competitor with myself in giving me permission to use the name Kielwood.

Just to clarify - are you producing torrefied wood yourself, and Jeff believes your process is similar enough to his to be endorsed by his brand?
Or are you using torrefied wood from other (various?) sources and Jeff says since you obviously make good cues, it's ok with him if you call whatever process heated wood by his brand name, whether he has verified the process or not?

thank you.
smt
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Just to clarify - are you producing torrefied wood yourself, and Jeff believes your process is similar enough to his to be endorsed by his brand?
Or are you using torrefied wood from other (various?) sources and Jeff says since you obviously make good cues, it's ok with him if you call whatever process heated wood by his brand name, whether he has verified the process or not?

thank you.
smt
I am pretty sure we use the same source.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am pretty sure we use the same source.

Still ambiguous?
So neither one of you is cooking it yourself, but you have a mutual source. Jeff originally branded it, but since your source is the same, he is ok with you using the same brand?

I'm sort of trying to understand if this is actually less like Kleenex and more like Meehanite, which is a licensed process for cooking stable cast iron that is generally appreciated as being superior to make machine tools out of. A source could make iron "as good" for machine tools, but neither they nor the machine tool builder can call it Meehanite & pile onto the good will and known performance of the brand unless they are licensed & participate in a consortium that protects the process and the brand so that customers can rely on it as a standard of excellence.
 

cueman

AzB Gold Member
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Silver Member
Still ambiguous?
So neither one of you is cooking it yourself, but you have a mutual source. Jeff originally branded it, but since your source is the same, he is ok with you using the same brand?

I'm sort of trying to understand if this is actually less like Kleenex and more like Meehanite, which is a licensed process for cooking stable cast iron that is generally appreciated as being superior to make machine tools out of. A source could make iron "as good" for machine tools, but neither they nor the machine tool builder can call it Meehanite & pile onto the good will and known performance of the brand unless they are licensed & participate in a consortium that protects the process and the brand so that customers can rely on it as a standard of excellence.
Jeff did not invent roasted maple. But came up with the name Kiel Wood for his roasted maple. Others started calling theirs Kiel Wood using his brand name thinking that is a generic name for roasted maple. When in reality it is not a generic name, but a brand name. If you desire any other details or want to use the name Kiel Wood then tell Jeff what you plan to do and ask him if you can use the name.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am interested in the torrefication process, became aware of it a bit more than a decade ago when looking for a replacement material for a cypress job i had done 7 years before that.....and it rotted out! In the event, at the time, torrefied was pretty well proven to be rot resistant, but the strength was way down, and could not be used for my app, so i used Honduran and African mahogany for those molded/curved rails and posts on a rather formal deck. Since that time, i've noticed torrefied becoming a much more common architectural wood, such as poplar siding, which of course would rot over a few seasons if not torrefied (or _really_ well prepped and painted.)

If i start cooking maple blanks in a vacuum or inert gas in my larger process oven, be assured they won't be called kielwood, i generally have pretty good respect for brands that at least small businesses and other craftspeople have worked hard to develop themselves. The idea occurred to me because one of my kid brothers gave me a pile of holly boards he had sawed out of a big tree and stored in his barn. It became wormy and sap stained. Realizing i could salvage it for floor border accent strips in my wife's billiard room, i cut it up to 7 ft lengths and "cooked" it in the process oven overnite to kill the creepy-crawlies & (hopefully) prevent the stain from spreading. I only used 195F as the temp though, since 145F is supposed to be adequate. But the idea sort of stuck in my mind "hey, this could do shaft blanks as well, just set the temp higher" & probably use a canister or something that could be evacuated or inert gas infused. Too many other projects on the go to study it very hard at the moment, but try to pick up hints here and there when they occur.

Thank you.
smt

"cooked" holly, wenge & bloodwood sub-borders for billiard room floor. Satinwood and wenge transition blocks.

DSC_0477.JPGDSC_0486.JPG
 
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Mike Rys

Blind Owl
I am interested in the torrefication process, became aware of it a bit more than a decade ago when looking for a replacement material for a cypress job i had done 7 years before that.....and it rotted out! In the event, at the time, torrefied was pretty well proven to be rot resistant, but the strength was way down, and could not be used for my app, so i used Honduran and African mahogany for those molded/curved rails and posts on a rather formal deck. Since that time, i've noticed torrefied becoming a much more common architectural wood, such as poplar siding, which of course would rot over a few seasons if not torrefied (or _really_ well prepped and painted.)

If i start cooking maple blanks in a vacuum or inert gas in my larger process oven, be assured they won't be called kielwood, i generally have pretty good respect for brands that at least small businesses and other craftspeople have worked hard to develop themselves. The idea occurred to me because one of my kid brothers gave me a pile of holly boards he had sawed out of a big tree and stored in his barn. It became wormy and sap stained. Realizing i could salvage it for floor border accent strips in my wife's billiard room, i cut it up to 7 ft lengths and "cooked" it in the process oven overnite to kill the creepy-crawlies & (hopefully) prevent the stain from spreading. I only used 195F as the temp though, since 145F is supposed to be adequate. But the idea sort of stuck in my mind "hey, this could do shaft blanks as well, just set the temp higher" & probably use a canister or something that could be evacuated or inert gas infused. Too many other projects on the go to study it very hard at the moment, but try to pick up hints here and there when they occur.

Thank you.
smt

"cooked" holly, wenge & bloodwood sub-borders for billiard room floor. Satinwood and wenge transition blocks.

View attachment 726085View attachment 726086
The torrefaction process uses much higher temperatures. It requires an oxygen depleted kiln to prevent the wood from igniting. Luthiers have been using the process for years. Acoustic instrument tone improves with age. Instruments that are decades old sound different than when they were new due to the wood aging. The torrefaction process was used to achieve similar tone as 50+ year old without waiting 50+ years. The process was adapted by cue makers to get that crisp firm hit that vintage conversion cues give. They make great hitting shafts.
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The torrefaction process uses much higher temperatures.

Much higher temperatures than what?

It requires an oxygen depleted kiln to prevent the wood from igniting.

I addressed that in my post, though have not settled on process. GB's link with steam is interesting - mine has the lines and it's cheap.

Luthiers have been using the process for years. Acoustic instrument tone improves with age. Instruments that are decades old sound different than when they were new due to the wood aging. The torrefaction process was used to achieve similar tone as 50+ year old without waiting 50+ years. The process was adapted by cue makers to get that crisp firm hit that vintage conversion cues give. They make great hitting shafts.

I'm on some lutherie/luthiery sites.
Don't agree with everything, but am aware of the arguments. pro/con/etc. :)

It would certainly be possible to do torrefaction in my process oven, and it could hold up to a couple hundred board ft, racked, so long as mentioned earlier: the boards were cut to 84" long or shorter. I designed the oven with an upper "never exceed" limit of 700F but realistically hope to never exceed 500F. That is plenty for Torrefaction. 700 is where the high-temp wiring insulation is iffy, and only a couple hundred F below the spec for the window glass, and the galvanized melting point. It would make most sense to do smaller batch experiments; probably with a sub-chamber that could be sealed separately from the oven itself; also as mentioned. I'll see what the FPL has to say on the subject. Appreciate GB's link!

Part of the reason i backed away from Torrefaction for cues last year, was that i have too many irons in too many fires, and CF looks like a better direction if i come back round to completing some FS butt blanks that have been hanging around forever it seems at this point.

smt
 
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