Kress router needed ...
- Thread starter WilleeCue
- Start date
KJ Cues said:
KJ,
That doesn't make any sense to me. What makes you think that I have to get the full 220v in one line?
The router has 2 lines with no need for a ground. The manual says that neither line should be "earthed".
With 110 coming from both poles of the outlet (with the grounding wire left vacant) I'll get 220 over 2 lines.
So, unless I'm missing something here, could you explain?
The way I understand it so far, I could plug each of the 2 lines to a 110 outlet, one hot, one common then I'd get the 1/2 output as you say.
Am I wrong?
Just thinking out loud.
Regards,
Frank
PS. Do you have a Kress? If so, how are you running it?
Frank, In America you will get 220v using both sides of your breaker box where as 2 phases of power come into box. The 110v is one phase comming in and the other side (common) runs to ground.
Has anyone acutally tried this yet? I personally wouldn't try it. I don't think it will hurt the spindle but at $350 a pop and the fact I know how to wire it to the box at 220v does not make sence to try except for Williee's case as he would like to use gcode to trigger his 110v relay.
Just thinking out loud.
Regards,
Frank
PS. Do you have a Kress? If so, how are you running it?[/QUOTE]
Has anyone acutally tried this yet? I personally wouldn't try it. I don't think it will hurt the spindle but at $350 a pop and the fact I know how to wire it to the box at 220v does not make sence to try except for Williee's case as he would like to use gcode to trigger his 110v relay.
Just thinking out loud.
Regards,
Frank
PS. Do you have a Kress? If so, how are you running it?[/QUOTE]
Mc2 said:
Yeah, I'm googling and googling right now trying to further my education on this.
So far I understand the single line 220v that KJ mentions, but I have yet to find that the euro 2 pin plug is supplied with 220 on one leg or 2.
I've also found that someone says that it doesn't matter if the total 220 comes on 2 lines or one. They even go so far as saying that the European spec for the common wire does carry voltage, unlike our US spec for common. Unless it's the common on a 220 circuit which carries our second leg of 110.
Eeash......Still digging........Anyone who actually has real world experience here?
Thanks and regards,
Frank
Frank, in most houses in the USA there are two wires feeding electricty to your box.
They equal 220vac.
Go between ground and one of the two hot wires and you get 120vac.
This is how your electrical breaker box is wired.
About half the 120vac breakers are off one hot wire (phase 1?) and the others are off the other hot wire (phase 2?).
The return side for 120vac is the same as ground.
The Kress 220 vac router has two wires and they connect to the two hot wires. Thru a breaker of course. There is no ground wire in the kress 220vac router just the two hot wires.
Connecting the two wires in the kress power cord to 120vac hot and ground will run the router at about half speed. It would not matter which color wire goes where.
Edited for wiring accuracy.
They equal 220vac.
Go between ground and one of the two hot wires and you get 120vac.
This is how your electrical breaker box is wired.
About half the 120vac breakers are off one hot wire (phase 1?) and the others are off the other hot wire (phase 2?).
The return side for 120vac is the same as ground.
The Kress 220 vac router has two wires and they connect to the two hot wires. Thru a breaker of course. There is no ground wire in the kress 220vac router just the two hot wires.
Connecting the two wires in the kress power cord to 120vac hot and ground will run the router at about half speed. It would not matter which color wire goes where.
Edited for wiring accuracy.
Last edited:
real world experience
I am currently using my kress router @240vac in the U.S. with no problems. I haven't tried to run it @120vac, but I imagine that the variable speed controller would have problems anywhere except wide open.
There is a huge difference in torque between a motor running at pulsed 240 volts at 50% duty cycle vs the same motor running at half voltage. For this reason, I have no interest in running mine at 120vac. The speed controller in the Kress is a big part of what makes it good.
While we're on this subject, we should make the distinction between neutral and ground. While similar, they are two different things. Deliberately passing current through a ground connection is a very bad idea.
Jr's Farm said:
I am currently using my kress router @240vac in the U.S. with no problems. I haven't tried to run it @120vac, but I imagine that the variable speed controller would have problems anywhere except wide open.
There is a huge difference in torque between a motor running at pulsed 240 volts at 50% duty cycle vs the same motor running at half voltage. For this reason, I have no interest in running mine at 120vac. The speed controller in the Kress is a big part of what makes it good.
While we're on this subject, we should make the distinction between neutral and ground. While similar, they are two different things. Deliberately passing current through a ground connection is a very bad idea.
dchristal said:
You are correct. The common and the ground are both grounds but entirely different entities. Although there are different codes in different parts of the country, where I'm located, I believe to meet code as a ground, a copper bar must be at least seven feet into the ground. The common, on the other hand, is a separate line that goes all the way to the power station.
Dick
800w 110v Kress routers - $295
All this worry about adapting 220v units to 110v.
Tsk, tsk.
Apparently nobody has bothered to verify a claim made earlier about Techno's prices. However, Techno has 110v, 800w Kresses available for $295. All day...every day. Collets are $35 each.
This forum has made life much easier for someone starting out but it has become a crutch too easily reached for. Instead of doing some basic research, everyone tends to take the easy route & ask a question here. Unfortunately, many times the answers are incorrect, misleading or self-serving.
PM me & I'll hook you up with my rep.
All this worry about adapting 220v units to 110v.
Tsk, tsk.
Apparently nobody has bothered to verify a claim made earlier about Techno's prices. However, Techno has 110v, 800w Kresses available for $295. All day...every day. Collets are $35 each.
This forum has made life much easier for someone starting out but it has become a crutch too easily reached for. Instead of doing some basic research, everyone tends to take the easy route & ask a question here. Unfortunately, many times the answers are incorrect, misleading or self-serving.
PM me & I'll hook you up with my rep.
dchristal said:
As I recall my house power box (where all the breakers are) is mounted outside on the back of the house.
It is fed with two wires (220vac).
All the white wires comming into this box from all around the house go to GROUND. All of them. The box itself is grounded and the ground buss bar is connected to it. All white return wires go directly to ground.
Now for my shop a new breaker box was installed and two wires were ran to it from the main box outside the house. (220vac) There is a big ground wire from that box to a ground rod. All the white wires (120vac return) are connected to that ground on a buss bar. Call it a neutral or call it a ground ... they all go to the same spot.
All this talk about the Kress has me wondering out loud........
I have 2 of the older blue and gray 900W that run on 110v...
What would have to have been done to them to make them run on 110?
The tag on the side says 230V but has been blacked out with a marker.
That's the way I bought both of them brand new here in the states.
Unfortunately, the place I got mine is no longer around.
Would there have to have been something done to the speed controller on the inside to make this possible? I have taken them both apart and can not see anything that doesn't look factory on the inside.
Also curious....every one talks about how great the German engineering is on these but both of mine say "Made in Switzerland".........
I have 2 of the older blue and gray 900W that run on 110v...
What would have to have been done to them to make them run on 110?
The tag on the side says 230V but has been blacked out with a marker.
That's the way I bought both of them brand new here in the states.
Unfortunately, the place I got mine is no longer around.
Would there have to have been something done to the speed controller on the inside to make this possible? I have taken them both apart and can not see anything that doesn't look factory on the inside.
Also curious....every one talks about how great the German engineering is on these but both of mine say "Made in Switzerland".........
Lee, look closely at what you just posted. That is the price for the ROUTER SET with collets, overpriced wrenches and possibly a mount. The quote I have from 8/08/08 is this:WilleeCue said:
H24K00M82104 1 800 watt Kress spindle only. $295.00
I stand by my original post.
WilleeCue said:
At some point, this is outside the scope of cuemaking, but it usually doesn't hurt to understand things. Power is transmitted from power stations in a three phase configuration with no common coductor. This is known as a delta /\ Where very high power if bounced around the three conductors as it economically travels great distances over relatively small wire. This is 25 percent cheaper then a 4 wire setup. On the scale of power companies, it's worth it. Later the power is stepped down ito a wye | configuration
/\
the transformers join in the middle forming a common conductor know as... you guessed it. common. this guy can take power from any of the three hot legs and get a lot of different configurations. Each of the three sources of power can be used separately or together to form 120, 208, 360 480 etc. Closer to the typical home they'rell a stepdown or pole transfer which drops the 14400 VAC on the pole down to a couple of legs of 120 that are out of phase and therefore yield 240. If you want to run 120 you need the common for a return line. The ground is shamelessly small for heavy loads and you're counting on the earth to coduct electricity all the way back to the plant. The neutral wire that's about a half inch thick is the one that your current should flow on. The ground ijust there for safety and to keep common from drifting too far from ground in its travels.
not that anybody cares.
I'm sorry I took off on such a rant, but who knows? maybe somebody will straighten us out.
Ok, after it's all said and done, this is my experience.
I never really wanted to run the router at 110 to begin with...why spend so much for half the power. My whole goal was to verify the proper hookup to convert the 2 prong euro plug to an American 3 prong.
After much consideration and a few members here, I cut off the euro plug and connected both wires to the X and Y terminals respectively (ignoring the green/ground connection), on a 220v, 20amp 3 prong connector.
The router didn't go up in smoke, I didn't electrocute myself, and by the sounds of things, the router operates at full RPM (educated guess, as I don't have a tach that will do 30k +/-)
I took a couple passes on some shaft wood tonight, playing with the speed control and standard 3-wing cutter. I didn't see any need to go any faster than #4 on the speed. The router is quiet and vibration free, well worth the coin, IMHO.
Hope this will help someone, but of course, YMMV.
Regards,
Frank
I never really wanted to run the router at 110 to begin with...why spend so much for half the power. My whole goal was to verify the proper hookup to convert the 2 prong euro plug to an American 3 prong.
After much consideration and a few members here, I cut off the euro plug and connected both wires to the X and Y terminals respectively (ignoring the green/ground connection), on a 220v, 20amp 3 prong connector.
The router didn't go up in smoke, I didn't electrocute myself, and by the sounds of things, the router operates at full RPM (educated guess, as I don't have a tach that will do 30k +/-)
I took a couple passes on some shaft wood tonight, playing with the speed control and standard 3-wing cutter. I didn't see any need to go any faster than #4 on the speed. The router is quiet and vibration free, well worth the coin, IMHO.
Hope this will help someone, but of course, YMMV.
Regards,
Frank