League BS: opinions please.

PoolSponge

PoolSponge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I will try and keep this short and to the point.I would like to hear some opinions from around the pool world with regards to some BS we are dealing with in our local league.

We have several different divisions to cater to all levels. At the highest level we have what is called our "Super League". The point is to bring out our areas best and make them play against each other in a 4 player team format.

This issue is this, some teams, one in particular, usually show up missing a player and want to be allowed to rotate a player instead of pre-arranging spares. The league coordinator started the year saying all teams without a spare arranged will not be allowed to rotate and a 10-0 will be given. Some argue this is too harsh for a "fun" night. The other side argues that the "fun" nights are other divisions and that the upper echelon league should be set for serious competition with serious rules and guidlines.

What say you AZB?

Anyone interested in the debate check out the forums for our local site (not a competitor in any way to AZB, most of us there are members here).

www.brokencue.com
 
I think it's a no brainer and I believe most everyone else on here would pretty much agree. The team takes a 10-0 loss every time that game comes up. The rule's already in place. If you can't field your team find a sub or stay out of the league.
 
If this is a "super league" doesn't that make it kinda tough to bring in a "ringer" ? If so, then why care ? I can see where the handicapped leagues need to maintain a spare list to ensure proper handicapping etc., but if this is an unhandicapped top-tier league then this reason is moot.

Dave
 
It never fails to amaze me when someone, or in this case, a team doesn't take its commitment to a schedule and rules seriously and just considers it as a 'Fun night'.

If they truely do consider it a 'fun night' why would they care about the consequences (10-0 loss)? Scores shouldn't matter then right? they are only there for the 'fun'. Scores don't matter, wether they show up or not doesn't matter, when they are there, it is all about the 'fun'.

IMO the team should have a 'fun' night all for themselves and not play with the big boys yet.


PoolSponge said:
The league coordinator started the year saying all teams without a spare arranged will not be allowed to rotate and a 10-0 will be given. Some argue this is too harsh for a "fun" night. The other side argues that the "fun" nights are other divisions and that the upper echelon league should be set for serious competition with serious rules and guidlines.

www.brokencue.com
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StrokeofLuck said:
I think it's a no brainer and I believe most everyone else on here would pretty much agree. The team takes a 10-0 loss every time that game comes up. The rule's already in place. If you can't field your team find a sub or stay out of the league.
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i agree. they get the big O for not having a player present.
 
I'm with the majority on this issue. Without doubt, it's not fair to let one player play 2x in place of the missing player. If it is a upper or super league, players should be committed enough to show up.. JMHO
 
PoolSponge said:
I will try and keep this short and to the point.I would like to hear some opinions from around the pool world with regards to some BS we are dealing with in our local league.

We have several different divisions to cater to all levels. At the highest level we have what is called our "Super League". The point is to bring out our areas best and make them play against each other in a 4 player team format.

This issue is this, some teams, one in particular, usually show up missing a player and want to be allowed to rotate a player instead of pre-arranging spares. The league coordinator started the year saying all teams without a spare arranged will not be allowed to rotate and a 10-0 will be given. Some argue this is too harsh for a "fun" night. The other side argues that the "fun" nights are other divisions and that the upper echelon league should be set for serious competition with serious rules and guidlines.

What say you AZB?

Anyone interested in the debate check out the forums for our local site (not a competitor in any way to AZB, most of us there are members here).

www.brokencue.com
Click to expand...

Rules are rules. What I've found running a league that there are always going to be teams that want the rules bent to suit them best. If you change things for them it isn't fair to the rest of the teams in the league.

These teams are usually the first to complain about anything and the last to step up and do the right thing when situations occur.

Best thing to do is to have a league charter that cleary states the rules of play and team responsibilities and stick to your guns.
 
How about instituting that every team has "2" free or whatever # of times that the team can rotate and then after that it's a 10-0 round. Sometimes emergency's can happen.
 
If you look statistically, and I've done this over a wide range of skill levels where I am, at the averaged score for an 8-ball game, it's pretty close to 10 - 4. What we do around here is score each forfeited game 10-4. So the forfeited player becomes like a player who had a really bad night, and that seems to work pretty well.

PoolSponge said:
I will try and keep this short and to the point.I would like to hear some opinions from around the pool world with regards to some BS we are dealing with in our local league.

We have several different divisions to cater to all levels. At the highest level we have what is called our "Super League". The point is to bring out our areas best and make them play against each other in a 4 player team format.

This issue is this, some teams, one in particular, usually show up missing a player and want to be allowed to rotate a player instead of pre-arranging spares. The league coordinator started the year saying all teams without a spare arranged will not be allowed to rotate and a 10-0 will be given. Some argue this is too harsh for a "fun" night. The other side argues that the "fun" nights are other divisions and that the upper echelon league should be set for serious competition with serious rules and guidlines.

What say you AZB?

Anyone interested in the debate check out the forums for our local site (not a competitor in any way to AZB, most of us there are members here).

www.brokencue.com
Click to expand...
 
mikepage said:
If you look statistically, and I've done this over a wide range of skill levels where I am, at the averaged score for an 8-ball game, it's pretty close to 10 - 4. What we do around here is score each forfeited game 10-4. So the forfeited player becomes like a player who had a really bad night, and that seems to work pretty well.
Click to expand...

I feel it's unfair to the player and the league to add scores to a player that wasn't there. This is bad for the player as a lot of special feat awards are some sort of combination of stats including an average. It's unfair to the rest of the league as the player will have a lower handicap as a result of scores added for when he wasn't there. Other teams may have to give away more points because of this.

The best way to deal with this is to add a forfiet player to any team that shows up short handed and award the zeros to that dummy player. This way you don't have to fix any stats like games played and so on.
 
it astounds me when people think they are entitled to special treatment or that they can bend the rules just because it's not a big deal. Sure, the league isn't the most important thing in the world (to some it is, sadly)... but you join a league under the conditions of the league rules. That is it.

When you get your driver's license you join the people driving cars according to the rules of the road... if you break the rules and are caught you are penalized and there is no gray area to discuss.

If you play a video game on your computer and are killed by a zombie... well the rules of the game state that you are supposed to die and lose a life when that happens... no arguing.

If you play poker and you have 3 of a kind and someone else has a full house, then the RULES OF THE GAME state that you are the loser and your opponent takes your chips!

Why should league play be any different? The answer, simply... is it shouldn't. This goes for handicapping systems in league play as well. If you don't like a person's handicap, then tough stuff. You play in the same league as they do, if you feel they sandbagged then you either quit the league or you attempt to do what they did under the SAME RULES!

:mad:
 
supergreenman said:
I feel it's unfair to the player and the league to add scores to a player that wasn't there. This is bad for the player as a lot of special feat awards are some sort of combination of stats including an average. It's unfair to the rest of the league as the player will have a lower handicap as a result of scores added for when he wasn't there. Other teams may have to give away more points because of this.

The best way to deal with this is to add a forfiet player to any team that shows up short handed and award the zeros to that dummy player. This way you don't have to fix any stats like games played and so on.
Click to expand...

I should clarify. We don't give fake scores to the missing player. So nobody's average is messed up.

But by garnering 4 pointed for the forfeited game, the team that is short a player still has SOME chance to win rounds. You keep some drama which makes the match more fun for everybody. The forfeited game becomes like a typical lost game.
 
We have been discussing a rules "change" that could be more easily enforceable along the same lines. We would allow the rotation, however, the rotating player could score to a maximum of 7 points. If they win then they register a 10-7 loss regardless. This allows the players that actually show up a chance at maintaining averages for wins, points, and ERO's.
 
yep

StrokeofLuck said:
I think it's a no brainer and I believe most everyone else on here would pretty much agree. The team takes a 10-0 loss every time that game comes up. The rule's already in place. If you can't field your team find a sub or stay out of the league.
Click to expand...

I agree here....the rules were noted when the league started; if you don't like it, don't play.....

As for "fun" attitudes, I never saw it when I bowled in a scratch league....(of course, I'm using bowling as an analogy here)...I had fun bowling in a handicap league, but once I joined a scratch league with a bunch of advanced bowlers, it was too serious for me....you miss a spare and no one talks to you....lol ...seems like egos take over ....
 
The 8ball league around here has this rule. If there is a player short then the opposing team picks the player from the short team to play for the dummy every time the dummy comes up, I think they insert the highest handicap on that team for the dummy,they obviously pick the weakest player every time, seems to work out ok.
 
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selftaut said:
The 8ball league around here has this rule. If there is a player short then the opposing team picks the player from the short team to play for the dummy every time the dummy comes up, they obviously pick the weakest player every time, seems to work out ok.
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Seems like there should be some penalty beyond this, especially since the guy who is missing could be weaker than any of the members present.
 
Leagues.........

PoolSponge said:
I will try and keep this short and to the point.I would like to hear some opinions from around the pool world with regards to some BS we are dealing with in our local league.

We have several different divisions to cater to all levels. At the highest level we have what is called our "Super League". The point is to bring out our areas best and make them play against each other in a 4 player team format.

This issue is this, some teams, one in particular, usually show up missing a player and want to be allowed to rotate a player instead of pre-arranging spares. The league coordinator started the year saying all teams without a spare arranged will not be allowed to rotate and a 10-0 will be given. Some argue this is too harsh for a "fun" night. The other side argues that the "fun" nights are other divisions and that the upper echelon league should be set for serious competition with serious rules and guidlines.

What say you AZB?

Anyone interested in the debate check out the forums for our local site (not a competitor in any way to AZB, most of us there are members here).

www.brokencue.com
Click to expand...
Our league allows what is called a "hardship" for the first couple weeks. This lets a team play one player of the opposing teams choice for the open spot on their roster. After a couple weeks you should have found another person to fill this spot. If after a couple weeks you still have a vacancy, oh well, now it's forfeit time 10-0.
 
In my experience any organized activity will have some degree of BS attached to it. You have to ask yourself if the BS outweighs the fun you are having. If not overlook it and try to enjoy yourself. If it is just too much my advise is to quit. People are always looking for drama or problems or some sort of common enemy, its human nature.
 
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