League crisis! Help!

[Vinnie]

My bar pool league has 10 teams. Somehow 8 out of 10 score sheets disappeared from one week. They were never collected from that night. Now there is one week where there are no scores posted for 8 teams and no individual scores posted except for 10 people. My idea was to get the team captains together and figure out which teams beat which teams that week, and then just put ALL zeros or ALL fives (the max) for individuals that week. Can anyone suggest a better solution? Without a fix, the teams that did post that week have a big unfair advantage. By the way, the reason that there was two team's score sheets is because the league secretary keeps score for one of those teams.

Vinnie

 

[MFB]

My bar pool league has 10 teams. Somehow 8 out of 10 score sheets disappeared from one week. They were never collected from that night. Now there is one week where there are no scores posted for 8 teams and no individual scores posted except for 10 people. My idea was to get the team captains together and figure out which teams beat which teams that week, and then just put ALL zeros or ALL fives (the max) for individuals that week. Can anyone suggest a better solution? Without a fix, the teams that did post that week have a big unfair advantage. By the way, the reason that there was two team's score sheets is because the league secretary keeps score for one of those teams.

Vinnie

Yikes!

FWIW, each team should turn in a sheet for the night, not have them 'collected'. If they are collected, the burden falls on the league operator. If they don't turn it in, they don't get a score for the night.

I have seen leagues where teams get credit for turning in sheets correctly filled out.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

My bar pool league has 10 teams. Somehow 8 out of 10 score sheets disappeared from one week. They were never collected from that night. Now there is one week where there are no scores posted for 8 teams and no individual scores posted except for 10 people. My idea was to get the team captains together and figure out which teams beat which teams that week, and then just put ALL zeros or ALL fives (the max) for individuals that week. Can anyone suggest a better solution? Without a fix, the teams that did post that week have a big unfair advantage. By the way, the reason that there was two team's score sheets is because the league secretary keeps score for one of those teams.

Vinnie

This is most definitely a legal matter that should be brought before a Grand Jury OR, even more GRAND, the AzBilliards Forum Members (commonly known as "AzFM". The AzFM will gladly hear your case, decide on which method of appropriation of points should be used and administer the remedy in a timely and efficient manner. Let your league operator know that we are the highest authority in billiards, no matter which league it might be and that we're watching him. OR you can just get a lawyer from one of those television commercials but that might cost you slightly more than the AzFM's standard fee of $10,000. I know, that seems a little out of the ordinary but we like to keep the fee low so that every league case can be heard.

 

[ScottW]

My first question is, how are the sheets 'collected' in the first place?

My initial thought on what to do is to simply zero out the results from the two teams whose sheets were collected and the results tallied - basically pretend that the week didn't exist. It's (IMHO) the most fair way to handle things.

The fee issue is the next problem. If you just zero out the week's results, the fees for that week should be returned (or the teams simply credited and play free the next week). BUT - this largely depends on question #1 above - if the league operator is the primary party responsible for the sheet collection. If someone ELSE is involved - i.e. if the league operator had no control in this case - then it's not the LO's fault and another solution may be appropriate.

 

[ridewiththewind]

The only other suggestion I can give you is to just throw out that week's play stats/sheets that you do have...since there are only two...and have all the teams replay their respective matches at the end of the season. I will likely extend your season by one week....but if you have allotted a couple of weeks timeframe between season end and your banquet/awards ceremony...there should not be much impact to the season overall. As to any fees involved...just have them replay the matches that week for free....this avoids dealing with refunding monies that have already been collected. No need to make this more difficult than it has to be.

In the womens league I have played in...we had to postpone enough matches one week due to weather up river, that we just moved all matches to be replayed at the season end....it worked out just fine...and no one really complained.

As a side note...in my league, the captain of the home team is responsible for not only calling in the scores to a central location directly after the match, but for either dropping them off to a locked drop box or they must be postmarked no later than 2 days after the match night. Otherwise, the home team loses their points...while the visiting team is awarded a maximum win of 5 points.

Needless to say, very, very rarely do we have score sheets go missing.

Lisa

 

[jimmy-leggs]

sounds like your league is run on the SHINANIGANS THEORY.not acceptable!

 

[Vinnie]

My first question is, how are the sheets 'collected' in the first place?

My initial thought on what to do is to simply zero out the results from the two teams whose sheets were collected and the results tallied - basically pretend that the week didn't exist. It's (IMHO) the most fair way to handle things.

The fee issue is the next problem. If you just zero out the week's results, the fees for that week should be returned (or the teams simply credited and play free the next week). BUT - this largely depends on question #1 above - if the league operator is the primary party responsible for the sheet collection. If someone ELSE is involved - i.e. if the league operator had no control in this case - then it's not the LO's fault and another solution may be appropriate.

Actually, the sheets are not collected. Each team captain is responsible for turning in their sheets to a central location that night. Apparently what happened that night is that the secretary claims that she waited at the turn-in location until 11pm and nobody showed up. I just find that too hard to believe since we were already at week six. As far as fees, we do not have a weekly fee, just a team and individual fee at the beginning of the season.

If we completely remove that week, there will be two teams tied for first place even though one team actually won more matches. With only 10 teams, I'm sure we can figure out the team results from that week at a captain's meeting.

Vinnie

 

[Vinnie]

The only other suggestion I can give you is to just throw out that week's play stats/sheets that you do have...since there are only two...and have all the teams replay their respective matches at the end of the season...

Lisa,

I like the idea of having EVERYONE replay that week. I will suggest that at the meeting even though I am sure one team will be griping about it. Thank God for democracy!

Vinnie

 

[MFB]

....Apparently what happened that night is that the secretary claims that she waited at the turn-in location until 11pm and nobody showed up....

Vinnie

Sounds like you need a new secretary.

 

[ridewiththewind]

Lisa,

I like the idea of having EVERYONE replay that week. I will suggest that at the meeting even though I am sure one team will be griping about it. Thank God for democracy!

Vinnie

Yes, there are always those that will complain...it's the nature of the beast, unfortunately. My response to those who complain about having to play a winning match over, due to some unforeseen event, is "you should have no problem then winning it again."

Lisa

 

[ScottW]

Actually, the sheets are not collected. Each team captain is responsible for turning in their sheets to a central location that night. Apparently what happened that night is that the secretary claims that she waited at the turn-in location until 11pm and nobody showed up. I just find that too hard to believe since we were already at week six.

So folks are supposed to cruise by and put the sheets in the sec's hand? Or just drop them off at the location and the sec comes by and picks them up?

Maybe the sheets for the other eight teams are still at the drop-off spot? If the sec took off at 11pm and other folks came by after...

What would also be great, considering the 'net and all, is a way for team captains to take their sheets home, log onto a league website, and just plug the match info into a form and submit it that way. The two teams' entries could be compared and if there's any major discrepencies, someone could be alerted and get it figured out. (I'm a web developer, this is the way my brain works )

 

[ridewiththewind]

Actually, the sheets are not collected. Each team captain is responsible for turning in their sheets to a central location that night. Apparently what happened that night is that the secretary claims that she waited at the turn-in location until 11pm and nobody showed up. I just find that too hard to believe since we were already at week six. As far as fees, we do not have a weekly fee, just a team and individual fee at the beginning of the season.

This is why we have a locking drop box...the secretary can pick up the next day, and it gives those whose matches ran long, to get their score sheet in to a secured location, without the worry of loss. When dealing with a strictly womens league...many of the matches often run past 11pm...they play pretty slow.

If we completely remove that week, there will be two teams tied for first place even though one team actually won more matches. With only 10 teams, I'm sure we can figure out the team results from that week at a captain's meeting.

Well, you're not actually removing the week...more like moving the week. Everyone would start with a clean slate...any matches played for the week in question would become null and void. It would be as if that week of play never happened...everyone picks up a BYE for that week that the score sheets were not accounted for.

Vinnie

Your league sounds like it is run pretty close to how my womens league is run, with respect to schedule and team points, as opposed to individual points. We too, only pay a card fee up front...with no other fees during the season.

Hopefully this helps you out a bit...it has worked for us, in the past, with relatively little grumbling...and yes, the grumbler's are usually those that have the most to gain from the mistake, unfortunately.

First and foremost, is doing what is best for the league, as a whole. When a certain few are catered to, at the expense of the whole...the league will fall apart...and quickly.

Lisa

 

[Big Perm]

What would also be great, considering the 'net and all, is a way for team captains to take their sheets home, log onto a league website, and just plug the match info into a form and submit it that way. The two teams' entries could be compared and if there's any major discrepencies, someone could be alerted and get it figured out. (I'm a web developer, this is the way my brain works )

X2, sounds solid and fair.....if they don't have the net, they can place a 5 minute call the next day

My two cents - have a captains meeting, discuss the facts with open dialogue, get opinions, and then tell them you'll call the captains in a few days with your decision......the group may have a unanimous, easy fix that you hadn't thought of

 

[Vinnie]

X2, sounds solid and fair.....if they don't have the net, they can place a 5 minute call the next day

My two cents - have a captains meeting, discuss the facts with open dialogue, get opinions, and then tell them you'll call the captains in a few days with your decision......the group may have a unanimous, easy fix that you hadn't thought of

We have a captains meeting on Wed to resolve this issue which is why I have been looking for advice. I am not a captain this year, but I am the league vise-pres. I plan on taking the the advice from this forum to the meeting and hopefully there will not be much argument. Next year I get to be pres. and I will not be needing a secretary.

I would like to thank everyone for the good advise. Next year I plan on making a drop-box, and I will be building a web site with the league stats.

Vinnie

 

[ScottW]

(Nevermind!)