League last night....

I think the rule broken was that I wasn't supposed to switch cues until after the game was over. Truthfully, I didn't think it was a big deal. It was league play... But most of the other teams were bitter enough with my team because we were the only team in that division that played on 9ft tables.
 
Utter BS

Thunderball said:
Heres the deal.We play at a PH that has that has enough teams (apa) to be completely in house.No traveling.As a natural byproduct of this we know all the teams and players well....its been this way for years.

Last night we are playing the final playoff game of the year.We win we move on to the "cities".

Heres how it starts:
We put a guy up and the match up is a toss up imo.He does everything he has to do to lose.

The next match should go our way,but it doesn't and we are down 0-2 in a race to three.

We put up a three just hoping.They put their best player on him,no doubt trying to close the deal.But our three plays great and gets the win easily.

Next its on me.I draw another five so its an even race to four wins.I play pretty well (for me anyway) and never really have to sweat it.I won 4-1 and it should have been 4-0.

BUT during my match,near the end,my bud brings over a beer and says "I' bet you 5 bucks you can't get out from there". I had about 4 balls and the 8 so I said "your on" and I started shooting.I lost my shape a little and decided to play safe (despite the bet) for the win.I pay the man.The safety works and I have ball in hand with two balls to go.

My bud (and team mate) say again "I'll bet you five bucks you can't get out" which was funny as hell,and really he was just letting me get my 5 spot back.So I say sure.Play the two balls and he pays me back.
Match over.

We were now 2-2 with our best player left and they know it.We are poised to win after going down 0-2 to start the night.Then it happens.The other teams captian calls a foul and for a forfeit.He also calls to league rep to confirm and thats that.We lose 2-2 with a forfeit,why you ask?

Gambling.

I've been a league player and captian for a long long time.I would NEVER EVER even think about making this call on another team.It would never even enter my mind actually.Hell,it bothered him he just could have said so,like I said we have known this team for years.I think he wanted the win anyway he could get it.

Opinions?
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This is ridiculous on multiple levels.

1) The only mention in the rulebook about gambling is rule number 1 in the general rules section. Now, in general, in any organized sport, unless there's a good reason for it, people do not get severely penalized for a first infraction, especially if it was "innocent". The LO should have scolded you, but not made you forfeit on such an important game.

2) Your LO is an idiot who does not understand the phrase "spirit of the rules". If things went as you said, it was obvious this wasn't really gambling in any sense of the word. For the LO to make you forfeit he's either an idiot, or he's good friends with the other captain.

3) Your post makes it sound like you did not fight this very hard, if you knew the rules well you should have been able to argue the two above points.

I hate seeing stuff like this happen, people need to understand the intent of rules vs "letter of the law".

Incidentally, if you feel like making a REALLY big issue of it, sue the LO in small claims court for either the potential city championship prize or whatever is the max for filing in your location. It would be easy to argue that the LO's decision was unfair and not in line with regular league play (as you pointed out you don't even mark pockets). You could probably win that lawsuit, or at least get them to allow the final match to be played. Either way you get some cash or get to play most likely. People don't realize that when it comes to things involving money you can't enforce some rules and not others, if this decision was out of line with previous league play/enforcement you have an easy case. (IANAL)
 
juggler314 said:
Incidentally, if you feel like making a REALLY big issue of it, sue the LO in small claims court for either the potential city championship prize or whatever is the max for filing in your location. It would be easy to argue that the LO's decision was unfair and not in line with regular league play (as you pointed out you don't even mark pockets). You could probably win that lawsuit, or at least get them to allow the final match to be played. Either way you get some cash or get to play most likely. People don't realize that when it comes to things involving money you can't enforce some rules and not others, if this decision was out of line with previous league play/enforcement you have an easy case. (IANAL)
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There's lots of folks out there who take league WAY too seriously.

I figured the team captain of the team the OP played was one of these guys.

You, sir, have that man beat. In SPADES. Congrats!
 
hilla_hilla said:
League players... That's so stupid and trivial, I'm sorry that happened to you. That's a sh**y way to lose a match!

Last year when my cue got stolen I immediatly ordered a preditor. The day that my preditor came I had league. I didn't have time to hit any balls with it but thought I would use it during my match anyways. I had such a hard time adjusting to it, frusterated, I grabbed a house cue and started shooting with it. The captain on the other team was so anal and upset about me switching to a house cue (at that particular moment in time switching to the house cue was like the difference between night and day), he called the league operator:mad: . I never read the APA manual (and still haven't:o ) and didn't realize that there would be a rule over something as simple as that. Thankfully, I have a cue that I love and that stupid rule won't come into play again. As for the other rules... I still need to read the manual... :eek: :rolleyes: :D
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If you are talking about APA I don't believe this is a current rule. I just checked both the current rulebook and the last one (so that covers back to the 04/05 season) and there's no mention of not being able to switch cues. I think it used to (at some point in the past) say this, but when they clarified that you are not allowed to use anything specifically designed to jump they took out the language about switching cues (originally that was supposed to cover no jump cues - ie if you can't switch cues you can't use a jump cue).

I do have a friend that a bunch of years ago was forced to play a game with his break cue because he took the first shot of the match with it...and forgot to switch to his playing cue. He ran out anyway.
 
ScottW said:
There's lots of folks out there who take league WAY too seriously.

I figured the team captain of the team the OP played was one of these guys.

You, sir, have that man beat. In SPADES. Congrats!
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I'm just saying if you were wronged...and you want to be an ass in return, there's your route.

I would never do such a thing - it's far too much work!;-)
 
Damn I'm glad that TAP isn't that way, my friends and I gamble constantly during league. It's the only way to break the monotony of sitting for about 4 hours
 
juggler314 said:
If you are talking about APA I don't believe this is a current rule. I just checked both the current rulebook and the last one (so that covers back to the 04/05 season) and there's no mention of not being able to switch cues. I think it used to (at some point in the past) say this, but when they clarified that you are not allowed to use anything specifically designed to jump they took out the language about switching cues (originally that was supposed to cover no jump cues - ie if you can't switch cues you can't use a jump cue).

I do have a friend that a bunch of years ago was forced to play a game with his break cue because he took the first shot of the match with it...and forgot to switch to his playing cue. He ran out anyway.
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It was more than a few seasons ago. But our team suddenly ended up to "top heavy" and we had to dismantle anyways. It cracks me up how anal league players can be.
 
If it was me everyone in local pool community would be made aware of every little detail. Especially the names of the buggers involved. It will be very hard for them to shake the moniker of "Chicken $hit rules lawyers." The whole team is guilty by association as they didn't raise a hand to stop it but slinked out of the establishment.

Much like OJ Simpson they will have to carry that weight of ridicule in every game they play in the billiard public.

If I am present your damn sure I'll remind them of it for all to hear...smiling the whole time. :p
 
I have played in APA for many years and I am a referee for city tournaments and all I have ever heard about gambling being a problem is if someone on your team ask players on the opposing team if they want to wager a bet on the game or match.--Leonard
 
Reason # 1847593 why I hate the APA!!!!!! And dont play APA anymore.

If you think thats bad, I always had to deal with the whole, " that isnt a SAFTEY " when I'd mark down a saftey shot, on an intentional miss, or when someone just starts to push out balls from a cluster.

But then its always fun to look at the opposing teams score sheets, and see no saftey's marked while mine was full of them.
 
Some APA team captains know they can't win, so they use everything they can to gain an advantage.

For example, my 8-ball team played at so-called "cities" this past June. It was my turn & I'm up 3-0; I'm playing good & feeling good, despite the fact we're playing on these 7 foot bar tables.:p
The opposing team's captains then tells me I need to speed things up; & if I don't she would be calling a referee over to impose a shot clock on me.:confused:
This infuriated me!:mad: I was unaware of this rule.
Consequently, I didn't play my game. I played fast & rushed almost every shot. I let her get into my head! My opponent came back to beat me 4-3.
We still ended up winning that match.

Now that I look back & think about it, I'm glad it happened. I learned an invaluable lesson. Not only did it open my eyes to see how desperate some people are to win, but it also strengthened my mental toughness!:D
 
Well I can scratch joining an APA leauge off of my list of things that sound fun and might like to try sometime. With my intolerance of people being anal I would LOSE it if anything like the above mentioned happened to me. I don't mind following the rules and believe me if someone broke them outright I would call them on it, even if it seemed trival, BUT, everything mentioned seems trumped up and inconsequential, which I would have a major problem with and I simply wouldn't allow another person to manipulate me or the rules for their own personal benefit.
 
Bah, don't write off the APA just from the posts here. It's not like perfectly calm and logical people put together an APA team, and get their membership cards, and suddenly they all turn into THE DEVIL. People who are pre-disposed to such behavior are just that - there are plenty of APA teams/players who are class acts.

On the shot clock thing - yeah, your normal session match tends to last (on average) about four hours, and you're not really rushed at all (except by peer pressure) as you're not on a schedule. But when you get to Cities/etc., there's a lot of teams and only so many tables and hours in the day. They have a schedule set and need to stick to it. So there's the "slow play" rule that gets invoked now and again. Your LO should have had a captain's meeting prior to the start of your tournament, and should have explained this rule - and your captain should have then passed that info onto your team.

Personally, in four years of playing APA in Colorado, and going to these type tournaments many times (in our area, instead of end-of-session champs going to the yearly Cities, we had three post-session qualifiers to go to Cities - so any given team could play in *four* of these type tournaments a year), I never had the shot-clock rule come up (either against my team or the teams we played) and I can't recall ever hearing it invoked, either.
 
Bah, don't write off the APA just from the posts here. It's not like perfectly calm and logical people put together an APA team, and get their membership cards, and suddenly they all turn into THE DEVIL. People who are pre-disposed to such behavior are just that - there are plenty of APA teams/players who are class acts.
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I agree (figured I'd say so since I started this bash fest) and I'll continue to play.I do wish I had more options though,perhaps the BCA or TAP would be a better fit for me,but its not a local option.

Anyhow,I've met some great people and had some great times over my years in the APA.No regrets overall.
 
Thunderball said:
I agree (figured I'd say so since I started this bash fest) and I'll continue to play.I do wish I had more options though,perhaps the BCA or TAP would be a better fit for me,but its not a local option.
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Actually, I believe BCA *is* an option for you - they don't have the same structure as APA/TAP (i.e. franchises, territory owners, etc).

I'm pretty sure the guy who runs the BCA league I play out of (and I play on his team) doesn't have any sort of "ownership" going on - he's just a schmoe like you and me.

You may well be able to start your own local BCA league. You might do a bit of research on it if you're so inclined.
 
ScottW said:
Bah, don't write off the APA just from the posts here.
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I agree wholeheartedly. I've had a great time in the APA, because the league I joined seems to just be way better (filled with better people, I mean) than most others that get mentioned on here. So try your local APA league before deciding it's not for you, because they vary WIDELY from place to place.

Thunderball, that was a dick move by the other team, especially by claiming the forfeit instead of warning you to stop "gambling", but in the playoffs, you guys should have been more careful. Some people might even consider a teammate making any comment about your odds of getting out to be a form of coaching. The last thing you want to do en route to a comeback victory is give the other team a way to suck out. In our in-house league, we BS with each other all season, but in the playoffs, we always get a little more serious just to make sure we don't cross any lines during the important matches.

-Andrew
 
I feel ya here:
In our in-house league, we BS with each other all season, but in the playoffs, we always get a little more serious just to make sure we don't cross any lines during the important matches.
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BUT I feel ya here much much more:
that was a dick move by the other team, especially by claiming the forfeit instead of warning you to stop "gambling"
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Hell,the guy calling up the bet (my teammate) is one of the guys I coach during timeouts,not the other way around..and they know that...

Not taking away from your point and you are right fwiw....just sayin.
Everything about it F'n sucked for all the right reasons.

But we,myself included, gave em the out.That won't happen again.

Thanks for the reply.
 
I go home when league begins

When I was 7 yrs old my father bought me a league table, yea that little table. 2-footer.
You sell yourself short playing in league with all the bangers, and another round of drinks. This isn't pool at all to me. If you can't play with the big boys,then you practice and take lessons till you can! All the differen't slop rules each league uses. crap. I'd rather play snooker, play straight pool on a 5-10. Even a pro 8 is small. I think they should change the cue for all league players-they should have a standard 36" model like in bumper pool.Same game. Almost all of the poolhalls are Bars now, with 7 footers so the league players don't have to play on the nine footers.They might have to shoot a shot more than4 ft-boy thats hard. But it is not about pool at all it is about alcohol and how much money the bar tab is. I always joke with the apa boys here- ok you get the 8 and the breaks and 50 in straight pool to 125. It'd be different if they played straight pol,or banks,or one-pocket. It would be chinese here- I'm different- It'd be like the military say ok boys lets see who can hit the target at 25yds with a 50 and it's actually made to shoot 2000yds. I use Sako's, the best moa out there. mark
 
Do your thing hollywood.

I mean no disrespect because I don't know you from adam,but wtf??
Thats a bunch of bashing of folks who actually make time to play the game.
 
RunoutalloverU said:
Well I can scratch joining an APA leauge off of my list of things that sound fun and might like to try sometime. With my intolerance of people being anal I would LOSE it if anything like the above mentioned happened to me. I don't mind following the rules and believe me if someone broke them outright I would call them on it, even if it seemed trival, BUT, everything mentioned seems trumped up and inconsequential, which I would have a major problem with and I simply wouldn't allow another person to manipulate me or the rules for their own personal benefit.
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The APA has a few events that are a lot of fun like the South West Challenge in March. I specifically play my 4 matches for events like these. Any more matches than 4 becomes to much of a commitment (which I hate) for me, lol:eek: . If you are looking to have fun, give the APA a shot. You might like it:) .
 
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