I think you're over-simplifying the issue. Produce a movie, and the industry will explode ... If anything, history has shown that solution is a band-aid, which won't hold long. To me, the game is popular, but only on the amateur level. I've always believed pool's biggest problem is the lack of centralization, which creates the ultimate issue - no televised tour. Think of the major sports: football = nfl; basketball = nba; baseball = mlb; hockey = nhl; golf = PGA. What's pool? APA, BCA, WPA, CSI, IPT, Predator Pro Tour, Joe Tucker's American Rotation, whatever Bonus Ball was, Machroom's Mosconi Cup, whatever PacMan is doing in the Philippines, independent tournaments like: U.S. Open, World 14.1, Derby City, SBE, and a dozen other small, regional tours that host professionals on a consistent basis. That doesn't even mention the European and Asian tours. Most players in my league have never heard of ANY of the entities I've mentioned in regard to pool. Pool's not big enough to compete with itself, but the good news is that the money doesn't need to be huge to attract world class players. That means that if someone could get everyone on the same page, at least in this country, and get on one of those 1000 satellite tv stations, it wouldn't take much capital to get a tour going. They might even be able to use existing pool halls as venues. It's not like they need stadiums. In the end, it will likely take a super rich guy with a pool addiction. Until then, ill be waiting.
Lets bring pool back to the glory days
- Thread starter thall
- Start date
Ron Swanson
Banned
More to the point, who wants to go see a movie about pool? 
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I don't think that's what anyone is saying, and if they are, they're wrong. The objection is more to making it ALWAYS about money, as if the game means nothing if there isn't some financial bottom line to it.
I'll play anyone for a little money if they want to and I can afford it. Why not? I enjoy poker and used to play a lot, so while gambling isn't a main attraction for me, I can see the appeal and think it can be fun. But when it's transparent that guys are hustling and I can see all the BS that's going to come along with it - sharking, massive ego trips, unscrupulous crap just to get a few bucks ahead - that's when I take a step back. Because you can romanticize it all you want, but that's not what makes the game great. Gambling doesn't inherently ruin pool, and neither does not gambling.
If history tells us anything, it's that that is exactly what they're saying. Somebody always comes with that argument the minute this topic comes up.
Well, then that is incorrect. It's as incorrect as saying that a league player is automatically just some banger that couldn't navigate around a 9-footer if his/her life depended on it.
So yes, let's absolutely affirm that introducing gambling into the mix is not and has never been the death knell of the game. But it's also not the only reason the game exists or the only reason to play it. Which is pretty much what some in here have said. If money's the only thing keeping you on the table, I would question how much you love pool. That's all I was saying, because you see a lot of that argument too, and I don't think that gets us anywhere either.
Hey good point there. Remember the Mizerak commercail, it seemed like it was playing everytime you turned on the TV. Those are part of the glory days I'm talking about. We need them back and there is more than enough talent and skill among pro's today to entertain just like back in the day. We got players today that can play as good, maybe even better than the legends we all grew up with. I'm not saying people aren't playing pool today, they are, maybe more so than I think. What I'm saying is the legends of the game back in the day were reconized, known all around the country. The top players today are as good, maybe even better than the old guard yet todays top players are barely known by the public. They deserve better.
I'll give you an example that would give people something to see and talk about. Lets take Mike(the mouth)Sigel and put him up against Earl(the pearl) Strickland in a race to 30 and let them go at it. They would play just for bragging rights. Sigel running off at mouth and Earl firing back. Would that draw a crowd, you better believe it. Thats the kinda matches people would tune in to see. Fats and Mosconi drew the biggest ratings on Wide World of Sports back in 78 for the entire year because people wanted to see action, tempers flaring and entertainment. They supplied and people watched. People that watched never played but went out and tried their hand at what they saw.The game lifted and became more popular. We got players today than can supply, they just need a outlet and format to do it, thats the missing part in pool today. Todays top players are being denied. Why is beyond me. Nothing I like better than watching two top players go head to head in a match where they both sweat and perform. Where they get mad when they miss and show it. Thats pool at its best..
Someone could take 16 or 32 of the 'senior tour old guys' & do a tournament that would air a match a week. The baby boomers like me would watch & I would bet the channel surfers would too & then when word got out...but...it ain't gonna happen.
I've thought very, very few posters have ever given the opinion that playing for money is what the game is all about. It's just the way some of us learned to play. My love of the game is as strong as anyone and stronger than many. It's just that anytime this comes up, and it has, many, many times over the 9 years I've been a member someone just has to make that kind of comment. There are a hell of a lot of people here who don't understand that it's not playing for money that brought about the death knell of pool. I'm glad the game at least seems to be flourishing in some places but it sure ain't in some others where it used to be a hotbed.
I'm not completely against gambling. If 2 people want to match up and the peanut gallery wants to sweat it, cool. But I am absolutely against the train of thought that gambling is how to bring prosperity back to the game. But, I could be proven wrong. There's a reality show soon to be aired on trutv about gambling. let's see how well that does. And all of you league knockers... go to any billiards marketplace and ask them who's buying up all the pool gear. I thought so.
This is the problem, right here, distilled into a little more than a dozen words.
If it takes gambling to make pool interesting, then pool has selected itself out of the future, and even a big new film about pool will only delay the final demise.
Glory day's of pool was the 80's? Both the pool rooms in my town closed up in the early 80's and the Brunswick bowling alley with a dozen Gold Crowns took them out for video games, and brought in a single bar box.
People get way to carried away because ESPN looking for super cheap programming material produced some pool. They also carried arm wrestling and a bunch of other cheapo stuff.
People get way to carried away because ESPN looking for super cheap programming material produced some pool. They also carried arm wrestling and a bunch of other cheapo stuff.
That's a rather narrow point of view & one that's circulated & needs to die. Gambling has always been a hot button topic in discussions about why pool languishes so. It's always been in the game, mainly because players that have reached world class level in their play must dedicate inordinate amounts of time to it, yet can't make a living at it, so they gamble & because they do there has always been a voice saying there is no pro tour of money in pool because of the so called specter of gambling surrounding the game scaring off sponsors, like a dog chasing its tail.
Reflect on this, people like to gamble, casinos once just in Vegas then branched to Atlantic City, then Indian reservations & now damn near everywhere. Lotteries, daily numbers once illegal, now legal & in most places a day & night number. Sports book betting legal & illegal has always thrived.
Everyone scrambles & bickers over how to attract attention to pool, why not legalized sanctioned betting on a sport with a history of it. It gives people something cheer for, take an interest in the players about & betting would attract the interest from those that aren't even interested in playing because they don't have to play to be emotionally invested in it because they can bet on it. You say it's bad, isn't there legalized betting on Snooker in the UK? Didn't Betway just sign a deal with World Snooker to sponsor the newly named 2015 Betway UK Championship? Don't pro snooker players make a extraordinarily lucrative living with all the $ in the sport? Isn't that exactly what pool doesn't have & needs? Do you think all the people that pump the interest in snooker drawing sponsors & money to the game actually play snooker or would it be safe to say that a good portion know & root for players because the can bet on them, have wagered and won money on them & therefore have an interest & follow the players and game because of that. Gee that sounds facking terrible, why would pool want that? Are you kidding me? It's perhaps the one thing that could truly save the game but there's always some Dudley Doright in the corner whining about gambling ruining the game. Simply ponderous.
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You got that right!
Exactly Keith,
Its sure as heck isnt a bunch to tight ass gamblers who generally dont have enough money to buy something better than a 2 dollar Mickey D burger.
What we have is a demographic problem. We need another one!
Exactly Keith,
Its sure as heck isnt a bunch to tight ass gamblers who generally dont have enough money to buy something better than a 2 dollar Mickey D burger.
What we have is a demographic problem. We need another one!
Do you understand the folks that like those stories, basically the hardcore pool and league players, and the game won't survive with just that, because it means nothing to new folks coming in.
And only a bone head would prefer to watch a big money game with a couple of nobody's than watch the UP Open. Thus, that is the problem.
And should "they" have left what alone. Without leagues there would NOT be any more pool. Read Scott's post. 400K players that buy stuff. If there are no tables or cues to sell, they stop making them, and those folks stop sponsoring pro tournaments.
Diamond does a lot for the game, but if some of those 400K folks don't buy his product and a lot more stuff from other billiard manufacturers, who the hell is gonna watch pro pool let alone provide any money to it. And who buys those products, yep, league players. Oh, and you're welcome
League Players
It seems to take this Industry a long time to learn something.
Leagues Market to people, they do it by splitting teams and those players invite someone who doesnt play in to play as a new lower ranked team member.
What makes no sense to me is the guy that has a million or more riding on a place and yet he has no way of marketing to someone other than putting out a sign, so he pulls in another customer who was probably someone elses customer.
No New Customers being sought. Unlike the Pool League System.
Do you understand the folks that like those stories, basically the hardcore pool and league players, and the game won't survive with just that, because it means nothing to new folks coming in.
And only a bone head would prefer to watch a big money game with a couple of nobody's than watch the UP Open. Thus, that is the problem.
And should "they" have left what alone. Without leagues there would NOT be any more pool. Read Scott's post. 400K players that buy stuff. If there are no tables or cues to sell, they stop making them, and those folks stop sponsoring pro tournaments.
Diamond does a lot for the game, but if some of those 400K folks don't buy his product and a lot more stuff from other billiard manufacturers, who the hell is gonna watch pro pool let alone provide any money to it. And who buys those products, yep, league players. Oh, and you're welcome
It seems to take this Industry a long time to learn something.
Leagues Market to people, they do it by splitting teams and those players invite someone who doesnt play in to play as a new lower ranked team member.
What makes no sense to me is the guy that has a million or more riding on a place and yet he has no way of marketing to someone other than putting out a sign, so he pulls in another customer who was probably someone elses customer.
No New Customers being sought. Unlike the Pool League System.
You want to get interest in pool again make rooms that kids can go in. Also get some leagues to play out of there . So the kids can see real playing. The junior leagues will follow. also have a table just for grudge matches, separate from the other tables and plenty of room for by standers. Have rules for those tables posted . add a reff so there's no arguing over the rules. Sell food and drinks. The hardest part will be pricing everything so kids can afford it . and let the interest grow. If I had the money I would open a room like that. Some exhibition games would help also
Two opposing viewpoints, but only one makes any sense at all !...I can't believe ANYONE doesn't realize, it takes gambling to make pool interesting !..Only people who weren't around in pools 'glory days' would think otherwise...Does anyone really think poker would have enjoyed its TV explosion WITHOUT gambling ?
Yes, I'm old, but I remember when pool enjoyed "the good old days", full of character's and gambling !..All you do-gooder, non-gambler's keep trying to "clean it up"..you've almost succeeded in wiping it out completely ! :frown:
And btw, poker is NOT a sport, and does not count in this discussion. Meanwhile, back on the farm, NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, and NASCAR are billion dollar organizations. Yet, players don't bet on the games, and if you do, you are out of baseball for good. Go ask Pete Rose how he likes his HOF plaque
I have no problem with gambling on pool, but the folks that only play as a means to win a few bucks will NEVER have the heart of someone that plays baseball (non professional) or other sports for the sheer love of the game. I'm betting you don't even play pool anymore because there is no money in it for you. Just kinda sad.
I've played baseball for 47 consecutive years, without missing a year, and never got paid one dime to play even one inning. We've won state and national amateur championships, and we got a trophy, and I mean just one trophy, for the entire team. No cash, no prizes, nothing but a $75 trophy for our sponsor.
Play a game you are to old physically to play anymore because of a bad back, bad shoulder, etc and but still won't give it up. Go to the chiropractor for weeks just to get ready to start another season, spend $100 a week in massages so you can walk the next day after a weekend double header.
Pop pain pills so you can play in the playoffs, and then use up your vacation days for those days you are to sore to get up. Completely tore my ACL last year during a game, still tried to finish the game anyways, try being the key word. I was unable to finish. Sorry, but that takes more heart than betting a god damn c-note on a pool game....
So, yeah, now more time for pool, in my pool LEAGUE
And btw, poker is NOT a sport, and does not count in this discussion. Meanwhile, back on the farm, NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA, and NASCAR are billion dollar organizations. Yet, players don't bet on the games, and if you do, you are out of baseball for good. Go ask Pete Rose how he likes his HOF plaque
I have no problem with gambling on pool, but the folks that only play as a means to win a few bucks will NEVER have the heart of someone that plays baseball (non professional) or other sports for the sheer love of the game. I'm betting you don't even play pool anymore because there is no money in it for you. Just kinda sad. Yes, that and I just got too old..Leagues are fine, for some people..Myself, I'd rather watch Oprah ! (and I can't stand her) :sorry:
I've played baseball for 47 consecutive years, without missing a year, and never got paid one dime to play even one inning. We've won state and national amateur championships, and we got a trophy, and I mean just one trophy, for the entire team. No cash, no prizes, nothing but a $75 trophy for our sponsor.
Play a game you are to old physically to play anymore because of a bad back, bad shoulder, etc and but still won't give it up. Go to the chiropractor for weeks just to get ready to start another season, spend $100 a week in massages so you can walk the next day after a weekend double header.
Pop pain pills so you can play in the playoffs, and then use up your vacation days for those days you are to sore to get up. Completely tore my ACL last year during a game, still tried to finish the game anyways, try being the key word. I was unable to finish. Sorry, but that takes more heart than betting a god damn c-note on a pool game.... <--Yeah, Lotta heart, but maybe not too much common sense..
So, yeah, now more time for pool, in my pool LEAGUE
Boy RJ, you are a real bear for punishment aren't you ?..You may be the only person in the world, who goes to that extreme, and tortures his body, for pure 'love of ANY game' ???..Also, If you don't think there are ALL forms of gambling, on ALL sports, you are one very naive individual !..Millions (maybe billions) are wagered, every day
And, Poker is just as much a sport as pool is, when it comes to mano a mano gambling, or tournament competition !..You need to open your eyes to what is reality, and what is 'love of the game' !..Please be careful and don't put yourself out of commission before you reach middle age !
PS..There are a way more people than you think, who (like me) would rather bet a "damn C-note", than play funsie leagues, just to get out of the house, and have a beer, or win a trophy !..I wonder what your heroes, Artie and Freddie would have thought of your mindset ?..(wanna bet a C-note on it ?)
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