Long Draw Shots - Wobbling?

D

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i noticed last night that when i shoot a long straight draw shot (my nemesis shot) that the cue will "wobble" to one side, usually my left, just after contact.

i was shooting the longer draw shot right over the spot, using the spot to see if i was going straight. however, it did seem that i would end up with the cue directly over the spot at the end of the stroke in spite of this "wobbling" that occurred.

is this "Wobbling" at impact normal? or could this be the reason causing me to be so poor at this shot? i am better at the long straight in follow and stun shots than i am the long straight in draw shot. i assume thats because you have to hit the longer draw shot harder to get sufficient draw.

thoughts posters?
DCP

p.s. as always, save the jokes for later, thanks.
 
As usual

You failed to provide critical information in order to
evaluate your situation. Are you using a closed or
open bridge? I always use a closed bridge on long
power draws, it helps with consistency, and is less
likely for something to go wrong. And you would be
surprised that if you hit the cue ball where you should
that you really don't need to hit it near as hard as you
think you do.
 
i have been using the closed bridge.

this was the very first shot that Mark Wilson had me shoot when i took a lesson from him last year around the holidays.

i think i am going to shoot this shot tonight using the Rempe Training Ball and see what it tells me.

DCP
 
the cue tip moves to the left the split second after impact. then straightens out, giving the impression it was a straight stroke.

DCP
 
DCP,
As a reformed "ex-wobbler" myself, I can tell you what my problem was. If you are truly delivering a straight stroke with the wobble, then the wobble probably represents tension in the grip hand during the stroke, usually a subconscious effort to "guide" or "steer" the cue. The "power stroke" workout that I detailed in previous posts eliminated the wobble (it only took 2 months of concerted effort and 3000 shots - no lie, I've got the evaluation sheets to prove it). While the wobble occasionally re-surfaces during pressure situations, it is gone during practice and most games - my goal is complete banishment of the dreaded wobble.

Incidentally, the pro's that I hang around freak out when they see the wobble - as if it might rub off on them - they hate to even watch someone else do it.
 
To eliminate wobble....

Make sure your shooting hand (while stroking) and elbow stays in line with the point of aim on the cueball and the point of aim on the object ball. Find that imaginery line that makes the object ball and keep everything on that line.

Now stroke the cue with the hand staying on this same line.

Yes, it's obvious that's what you need to do. But, most will line up this way (while everything is stationery, everything is in line) but when they stroke the hand goes off line ever so slightly as it goes through the cue ball. The wobble.

It's related to those who say "don't drop the elbow". They say that, but what they really mean is keep everything in line. How else can many many pros (the best players in the world) "drop the elbow"....while the instructors insist you shouldn't drop the elbow. What's the difference? What they are missing is the difference between a verbal cue v reality. What they say compared to what they mean. What they say compared to what actually happens. Many times they aren't the same because the instructor doesn't know the difference. The verbal cue works for him because everything else he does is right. The verbal cue may not work for you because you don't do everything else right.

But, if you keep those check points in line you'll eliminate the wobble.
 
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Nit said:
How else can many many pros (the best players in the world) "drop the elbow"....while the instructors insist you shouldn't drop the elbow. What's the difference?
.
Click to expand...


Nit,
Just a point of clarification. Some super slo-mo analysis of a fair number of Accu-Stats tapes, shows that the professional "elbow droppers" are all dropping it AFTER contact with the cue ball. While its a minor point, those players who incorporate the drop, should be very careful to maintain a nice stable upper arm position until after contact if they truly are trying to mimic the pro's who shoot this way.

I have a book by Steve Mizerak that recommends not dropping the elbow, but then when I watch him play, he drops his own like no one you've seen. Well, each to their own.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i noticed last night that when i shoot a long straight draw shot (my nemesis shot) that the cue will "wobble" to one side, usually my left, just after contact.

i was shooting the longer draw shot right over the spot, using the spot to see if i was going straight. however, it did seem that i would end up with the cue directly over the spot at the end of the stroke in spite of this "wobbling" that occurred.

is this "Wobbling" at impact normal? or could this be the reason causing me to be so poor at this shot? i am better at the long straight in follow and stun shots than i am the long straight in draw shot. i assume thats because you have to hit the longer draw shot harder to get sufficient draw.

thoughts posters?
DCP

p.s. as always, save the jokes for later, thanks.
Click to expand...


Based on that last line, I am guessing your "jabbing" at the ball trying to create cue speed....Your grip is probably going from loose to tight to loose.....If you have ever played baseball, you will know that going from a tight grip to a loose grip at impact will give your hands a "stinger".....I would say "cue wobble" at impact is a simlar occurance...

Relax not only your grip, but your whole forearm of your grip hand....don't "try" to produce the draw on the CB...let it happen with a relaxed smooth stroke...your tempo should remain basically the same for all shots...you shorten or longthen the stroke length for less or more power...(within reason)....but both your short and long stroke should have basically the same tempo...
 
Williebetmore said:
... all...
Click to expand...

All of them?????

And, please, define the context in which you are using the word "contact". Is it just the split second the tip hits the cue that's important? Or does it include the distance the tip travels through the cue ball? If not, why do we check our finish? And, did the elbow drop during that stage?
 
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Nit said:
All of them?????
Click to expand...

Nit-man,
Yes, we looked at 10 or 12 players (among them Mizerak and Sigel), and all of them did not drop until noticeably and obviously after impact.

One problem many elbow droppers have is during a crucial moment in games the stroke gets tighter and the grip hand moves forward a bit, so that the arm is now dropping before contact, decreasing to some degree the precision of their stroke (though certainly they can still make some balls).

Hey, maybe Dr. Dave will take a look at this issue with his high speed camera - I would trust those results.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
i noticed last night that when i shoot a long straight draw shot (my nemesis shot) that the cue will "wobble" to one side, usually my left, just after contact.

i was shooting the longer draw shot right over the spot, using the spot to see if i was going straight. however, it did seem that i would end up with the cue directly over the spot at the end of the stroke in spite of this "wobbling" that occurred.

is this "Wobbling" at impact normal? or could this be the reason causing me to be so poor at this shot? i am better at the long straight in follow and stun shots than i am the long straight in draw shot. i assume thats because you have to hit the longer draw shot harder to get sufficient draw.

thoughts posters?
DCP

p.s. as always, save the jokes for later, thanks.
Click to expand...

What shaft and what is the diameter? There is a stick I purchased at one time for breaking. I tried to play with it when my playing stick was getting a new tip. Anyway, there seemed to be some added flex to it which I found annoying.
 
Nit said:
All of them?????

And, please, define the context in which you are using the word "contact". Is it just the split second the tip hits the cue that's important? Or does it include the distance the tip travels through the cue ball? If not, why do we check our finish? And, did the elbow drop during that stage?
Click to expand...

Nit-man,
Oops, you edited your post as I was replying to the first one.

Contact = the split second of actual physical contact between tip and ball.

The reason we watch our follow through is that it gives us an indication of the direction and fluidity of our stroke; but NOTHING that we do after contact affects the cue ball (unless you are lifting the table, or moving the ball with your telekinetic powers like the hot chick in the X-Men movie).

Yes, their elbows were dropping like a mother after contact, and their cue tips were finishing level to the table (where the "non-elbow droppers" tips were finishing leaving chalky trails on the deck).
 
Williebetmore said:
...Contact = the split second of actual physical contact between tip and ball...

The reason we watch our follow through is that it gives us an indication of the direction and fluidity of our stroke; but NOTHING that we do after contact affects the cue ball.
Click to expand...

I guess jabbers are the best players in the world then. Because, all you have to do is hit the ball (in the right spot) and stop immediately. Follow through is totally unimportant.

I think the window is a little bigger than the split second of actual physical contact between tip and ball.

But, beyond this point, it is clear that intent to not let the elbow drop is far from an ablsolute of the pool stroke.

What is an absolute is keeping everything in line. And, maybe that's easier done if the elbow doesn't drop. But, the amount of players who drop their elbows and still play at the highest levels shows it not only can be done but is done by most of the best players in the world.
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
i noticed last night that when i shoot a long straight draw shot (my nemesis shot) that the cue will "wobble" to one side, usually my left, just after contact.

thoughts posters?
DCP

.
Click to expand...

Does the object ball go in? Does it go into the right half of the pocket? It sounds like you're simply hitting a hair to the left of center of the object ball.

Fred
 
Nit said:
I guess jabbers are the best players in the world then. Because, all you have to do is hit the ball (in the right spot) and stop immediately. Follow through is totally unimportant.

I think the window is a little bigger than the split second of actual physical contact between tip and ball.

But, beyond this point, it is clear that intent to not let the elbow drop is far from an ablsolute of the pool stroke.

What is an absolute is keeping everything in line. And, maybe that's easier done if the elbow doesn't drop. But, the amount of players who drop their elbows and still play at the highest levels shows it not only can be done but is done by most of the best players in the world.
Click to expand...

Does anyone notice that Allan Hopkins jabs at all his shots ? It amazes me that he can get the position play that he does with his stroke. :confused:
 
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