Louis, Paul, Jason, or Sarah?

Timberly said:
I used to run a weekly handicap tourney for Jimmy Hodges when he still owned Cue Time in Mauldin, SC. It was spot balls, not games. If you won, your rating went up. LOL Stevie Moore had to quit playing in it... he was giving up every ball to some players.

When I left SC and moved to TX I ran a weekly tourney where they spotted games. The highest rank was 7 and the lowest being 2. All the champions in the area would play in it along with the bangers... It started at midnight Sat night & we weren't done until 5 & 6 am.

The tourney in SC where we spotted balls was a lot quicker. Even with the number of good players in the southeast, you can pull this off much easier than it can be done in TX. There were too many people in TX to know all the players. It also didn't help when guys like Jeremy Jones or Danny Harriman were coming through town. JJ was roughly 17 at the time & I didn't know him (no one knew him at that time)... he got by me in the begining but it didn't take long before I bumped him up. Danny wasn't so lucky because I had met him in SC and knew his speed. :p

The area's down in GA and the Carolina's don't have nearly as many people per capita as the Dallas Ft. Worth area. While there's a lot of good players down there, everyone knows everyone and everyone has the line on everyone. Spotting balls in the SC tourney was very managable.
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Yea, I know exactly what you mean. The handicap tournament at Mr. CUES II run by Dave Biggers is a very good tournament but you just never know how long it would last. If you get Stevie, Brian Butler, Doug Young and Paul Song in the same tournament and they weren't losing, it could take a lot, lot longer than you were expecting. If two A+ players faced off, the race would be either to 7 or 8. When they faced weaker players the race would be something like 10-4 or 10-5. Just imagine reaching the quarter finals and having to wait 2 1/2 hours for your next match. In this situation you were lucky if you were able to leave the pool hall by 3-4 am. Keep in mind this tournament is single elimination as well. I know a few players that don't play in it much anymore because they get bad draws week after week and feel like they're donating money.

I'm trying to avoid this situation since my tournament runs on Wednesday night, and I don't want people waiting around anxiously because they have work the next morning. I'm usually finished at 12:30-1am. I also make it a double elimination tournament so the players get more table time for their money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to disrespect Dave's tournament by any means and I do admit it does pay very well and there are more players whom are more comfortable using the game handicap system but its just a headache to manage the time when you're not certain of how large the field will be that night.
 
thebestpoolroom said:
Angelo's system is not perfect. There are a few kinks that need to be worked out, I will admit to that. However, most players that I talked to seem to like the format. This is the only handicapped tournament that The Pool Room has and it seems that the players do enjoy playing in this handicapped format.

Good job Angelo.

John
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Thanks John. I always appreciate your support.
 
Sharkeyes said:
After much deliberation, here's the new handicap system we're going to implement for the final tournament. Its just a small tweek from the old one so for those of you who weren't too pleased with the one used this past wednesday, here you go!
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As a suggestion to make this system more accurate, as the rating gets lower, they should give less weight to the ratings below. For example, a D+ wouldn't give a D the last two simply because they are a '+' and the other isn't. An A+ can give an A the last two because they are capable of running out. The D+ player can't run out at all and has no business giving up a spot to anyone.

Just a suggestion.
 
Good Point! Here's where I run into some problems. The ideal handicap system is suppose to place two players in a situation where either one of them can win, given that they play their BEST at their level. It would be designed on a case by case situation so that fairness can be established. I tried creating a system like that and to most players, including me, found it too confusing.

Then there's the problem of having to appease players as well. If a B+ is spotting a B player the last 2 then players are going to argue why it shouldn't be the same for a C+ or a C player. In the same respect, if Johnny Archer (AAA+) played a AA player, that AA player would be asking for a lot more than just the 8 + Last 2 because Archer can be a set-running player. But in the same sense, if a AAA gets moved up to a AAA+ for winning a few tournaments, then they would be forced to play at Archer's speed. As we all know, only a handful of players in the world play that well. So it comes down to appeasing as many players as possible and designing a system that isn't too complicated for players to comprehend or memorize. I hope this clarifies what I'm aiming for.

Trust me, handicapping is complicated enough as it is.
 
Sharkeyes said:
Yea, I know exactly what you mean. The handicap tournament at Mr. CUES II run by Dave Biggers is a very good tournament but you just never know how long it would last. If you get Stevie, Brian Butler, Doug Young and Paul Song in the same tournament and they weren't losing, it could take a lot, lot longer than you were expecting. If two A+ players faced off, the race would be either to 7 or 8. When they faced weaker players the race would be something like 10-4 or 10-5. Just imagine reaching the quarter finals and having to wait 2 1/2 hours for your next match. In this situation you were lucky if you were able to leave the pool hall by 3-4 am. Keep in mind this tournament is single elimination as well. I know a few players that don't play in it much anymore because they get bad draws week after week and feel like they're donating money.

I'm trying to avoid this situation since my tournament runs on Wednesday night, and I don't want people waiting around anxiously because they have work the next morning. I'm usually finished at 12:30-1am. I also make it a double elimination tournament so the players get more table time for their money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to disrespect Dave's tournament by any means and I do admit it does pay very well and there are more players whom are more comfortable using the game handicap system but its just a headache to manage the time when you're not certain of how large the field will be that night.
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When you have a good player that runs tables, a set doesn't take 2 1/2 hours, (maybe many matches would). If 2 real good players are playing, they average about 3 to 3 1/2 minutes a game. (counting combos and snaps too).

Shooters Billiards here ran a handicapped tournament off balls for quite some time, but people couln't remember their spots, so they had to hand out a handicap sheet with every match, eventually they just went back to
a game spot because it is a lot simplier, easier to remember, and works out about the same.

Handicapping gets in trouble between handicapping locally as opposed to regionally as opposed to nationally. The tournament may be defined, but the players participating may be the problem. One static method does not work for all levels of Players. Many of our local tournaments are handicapped different depending on the level of players in the tournament.
When a top regioanl player or pro level player plays, the handicapping usually has to change in order to be fair to ALL players, and hence, the top handicaps become too high many times, which slows the tournament down a lot. It is hard to reach a happy medium for the Pool room and the players playing vs. cost of playing vs payback vs time it takes vs competition levels.
 
I like your points Scott. The tournament is over and all in all, only two players walked out slightly disappointed. Everyone else was pretty happy with how everything ran. We had some players who were having a good day and some players that were not having as much luck with their games. It will always happen.

The tournament was a huge success, Louis Ulrich received the King of Champion Title and Jason Klatt came up a close second. Paul Song was knocked out by Israel Hightower, who came in 4th and Sarah Rousey was knocked out early as well. Trick Shot Master Okinawa Slim came in a well placed 3rd.

Louis received $400 in prize money and Jason walked away slightly disappointed with $200 with Slim pocketing $120 and Israel with $80.

The tournament started around 2:30pm and ended around 11:30 with a 24 player field.

This event coverage and future tournaments and events announcements will be posted on www.woohootpromotions.com It will be a few days before the site is ready to go so bear with me guys.
 
Sharkeyes said:
The tournament was a huge success, Louis Ulrich received the King of Champion Title and Jason Klatt came up a close second.
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Tina, it looks like you & I called it! Where's our winnings??? :D

Congrats Louis, I had faith in ya. ;)
 
Timberly said:
Congrats Louis, I had faith in ya. ;)
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Thanks Timberly! I appreciate the faith :) . It was a very fun tourney.

Sharkeyes did a great job in running his series and I hope that he can get the support from the players and the room to keep it going and hopefully grow it into a bigger event.

Thanks for all the hard work Sharkeyes!
 
Sharkeyes said:
I like your points Scott. The tournament is over and all in all, only two players walked out slightly disappointed. Everyone else was pretty happy with how everything ran. We had some players who were having a good day and some players that were not having as much luck with their games. It will always happen.

The tournament was a huge success, Louis Ulrich received the King of Champion Title and Jason Klatt came up a close second. Paul Song was knocked out by Israel Hightower, who came in 4th and Sarah Rousey was knocked out early as well. Trick Shot Master Okinawa Slim came in a well placed 3rd.

Louis received $400 in prize money and Jason walked away slightly disappointed with $200 with Slim pocketing $120 and Israel with $80.

The tournament started around 2:30pm and ended around 11:30 with a 24 player field.

This event coverage and future tournaments and events announcements will be posted on www.woohootpromotions.com It will be a few days before the site is ready to go so bear with me guys.
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Just curious as to what the handicap levels of the final 4 players were?
What do you have guys like Brian Butler, Stevie and Bruce rated.
I think I would enjoy a fair match against the best players even though if they play to their level the match is still in their favor. A least I would have a shot at one of them.
 
Hey Frank.

#1 Louis Ulrich AAA
#2 Jason Klatt AAA
#3 Okinawa Slim A
#4 Israel Hightower B+
#5-#6 Chris Hightower B, Betty Sessions B-
#7-#8 Jeff Tabet B, John Salter B+
#9-12 Felipe Flores C+, Paul Song AAA, Dana Aft C, Chris Anderson C
#13-16 Ron P. (C), Frank C. (C), Jared S. (D+), Marcia M. (D+)
#17-23 Sarah Rousey (A), Scott H (D+), Lara (C), Jay Pas. (C+), Jay Peek (C+), Ellis B. (B), Murray M. (B+)

I know the top 5 spots appears kind of one sided but there were a few matches where it was really close (hill-hill) and a more than half of them just happened to go the higher player's favor. For players like Brian Butler and Stevie, they would most likely start as a AAA and if they win more than once they would be bumped up to AAA+ status.

I will be lowering a few handicaps the next session so lower players have even better chances of placing in the money. There will also be more money involved for the upcoming events, so stay tuned!
 
Louis Ulrich said:
Thanks Timberly! I appreciate the faith :) . It was a very fun tourney.

Sharkeyes did a great job in running his series and I hope that he can get the support from the players and the room to keep it going and hopefully grow it into a bigger event.

Thanks for all the hard work Sharkeyes!
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Thanks Louis! Its always a pleasure to have you in my tournaments! You are definitely a star player with a star attitude! That was a heck of a 5 pack you ran in the finals! You made it very exciting to watch! I hope we can be awaiting your appearances in upcoming events and I will definitely keep you informed of any news of opportunities in the future! Best of luck and the greatest success!!
 
Sharkeyes said:
Hey Frank.

#1 Louis Ulrich AAA
#2 Jason Klatt AAA
#3 Okinawa Slim A
#4 Israel Hightower B+
#5-#6 Chris Hightower B, Betty Sessions B-
#7-#8 Jeff Tabet B, John Salter B+
#9-12 Felipe Flores C+, Paul Song AAA, Dana Aft C, Chris Anderson C
#13-16 Ron P. (C), Frank C. (C), Jared S. (D+), Marcia M. (D+)
#17-23 Sarah Rousey (A), Scott H (D+), Lara (C), Jay Pas. (C+), Jay Peek (C+), Ellis B. (B), Murray M. (B+)

I know the top 5 spots appears kind of one sided but there were a few matches where it was really close (hill-hill) and a more than half of them just happened to go the higher player's favor. For players like Brian Butler and Stevie, they would most likely start as a AAA and if they win more than once they would be bumped up to AAA+ status.

I will be lowering a few handicaps the next session so lower players have even better chances of placing in the money. There will also be more money involved for the upcoming events, so stay tuned!
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Thanks
No matter what the better players will always seem to rise to the top. It makes since with them being ...uh ...better. IMO it really should show to the lower level players how much the mental part of the game matters.
Most lower rated players honestly think that the biggest difference is that the Pros just pocket balls better. Most know how to make them better and how to keep control.
Did you noticed that in the event that it finished As then Bs then Cs.
There were a couple changes but not many.
What I like about the concept is that once established you can have events with different top handicaps. IMO lower level players dont mind playing events where they have a chance against the better players and really like it to have events in which they are not there at all. A good mix.

When I lived in Athens Ga and Auburn Al I used to play in B level events
ran by Larry Hayes. They had quite a good following with C players playing one day and B the next. After 10 weeks or so a big final event
for each was held. I really wish there was something like that here in
SoCal.

Good luck in your events.
 
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