Low deflection haters

[BmoreMoney]

MAPLE. PERIOD. I'm not into all this LD stuff, I personally think it's just a marketing thing same as a new cell phone every year. If it ain't broke don't fix it is how I see it. Now, if you like LD and you think it makes you play better great no worries! From the endless discussions I've read on this I get this out of it all - it in fact does not make you play better. It makes you HAVE TO RELEARN where to hit after 20 + years only to get the same result??? Bottom line is to me it seems to be NO difference what you can do with either MAPLE OR LD, just how you shoot it??????

 

[Flatfoot]

I started playing pool with some bad habits. Very early, I started using left and right english on virtually any shot that involves some sort of cut right or left. That being true, I will say that I miss many more shots than I probably should when I need to move the ball three rails or so, when I use inside english. I end up hitting it too thin because I get so much deflection when I hit it with much speed. I have figured out that if I had a more consistent stroke, I wouldn't miss nearly as much as when I get a little jabby.

Well anyway, the point of me mentioning all this, is because I believe someone like me, who just can't seem to get away from using english on virtually every shot, would probably benefit from using a LD shaft. I have always played with a shaft that is considered pretty soft (high deflection).

I have shot with some of my friend's LD shafts and I almost can't believe how little I have to allow for deflection. In fact, when I hit with their shafts, I hit almost every shot too thick, when using inside, because I have gotten in the habit of allowing for so much deflection with my shaft.

Am I sure about any of this? The answer is; somewhat...but maybe I am just misinterpreting things.

 

[JoeyA]

Good thread! No argument with your suggestions. I suppose independent testing would be the best way to test these different areas.

For the record, SOLID MAPLE SHAFTS can have low deflection properties.

How many European Mosconi Cup players use a traditional maple non-LD shaft?

JoeyA

First of all...all cues have deflection...so if you don't have a low deflection cue then you have a high deflection cue or something in between. IMO cues/shafts should be sold with a deflection rating...otherwise if you aren't buying a LD shaft then you have no benchmark to go by, especially buying online.

 

[louieatienza]

It's difficult because there are so many variables, between shaft, and tip, and ferrule material, and joint type, that the things used now to measure cannot quantify anything with accuracy.

I think borrowing a page from golf club makers would be very beneficial. Items would include:

1. General measurements: Readings taked at specific intervals to inform players as to how the shaft would feel in their hands during their stroke, as well as weight, and weight distribution.
2. Bend profile analysis: The joint end is held solidly, and a weight applied to the tip end. Total deflection would be measured, as well as at predetermined intervals. Maybe even another measurement that measures the amount of deflection with the tip striking the cue ball a pre-determined distance off-center.
3. Frequency analysis: A more accurate way of assessing shaft stiffness. Same said weight is allowed to vibrate the shaft and the frequency measured. Lower numbers equal more compliant shafts (possibly less cueball deflection) and higher numbers for stiffer shafts (possibly more cueball deflection.)
4. Tip hardness: Can be measured with any of the relatively available instruments used now, such as for bowling balls.
5. Spine: Such as Meucci and others, it should me marked on top.

A database of such could make shaft selection a lot easier. One could go for a fitting, with a shaft of preference that the player owns. A player reveals to the fitter that he tends to miss cut shots with inside English heavy. The shaft is measured for the above parameters, and another similar shaft is found, with slightly lower frequency, or maybe harder tip, or both, that turns those misses into makes.

Once a database of these 5 or 6 variables are collected, also with testing from a machine like Meucci's Myth Destroyer, instead of just trial-and-error and guessing, builders and fitters could determine more precisely the best fit for a particular player, without the player changing much with their game or aiming. Also, pre-made shafts could all be measured for the above parameters, and marked on the shaft. Someone who has a favorite cue could have their shaft measured, and be given a new shaft with as close to the same properties as possible, so it feels similar. Makers can measure their shafts as such as well, so that cues with dual shafts actually have shafts that play as similarly as possible.

 

[KRJ]

MAPLE. PERIOD. I'm not into all this LD stuff, I personally think it's just a marketing thing same as a new cell phone every year. If it ain't broke don't fix it is how I see it. Now, if you like LD and you think it makes you play better great no worries! From the endless discussions I've read on this I get this out of it all - it in fact does not make you play better. It makes you HAVE TO RELEARN where to hit after 20 + years only to get the same result??? Bottom line is to me it seems to be NO difference what you can do with either MAPLE OR LD, just how you shoot it??????

You're wrong. It takes much guessing out of the aiming with English. I can hit inside English shots and go three rails that I could not do consistently before, why is that.

On most shots, I don't have to adjust even one thin dime and that's a nice benefit. There is no margin of error if there is not "adjusting" going on at all before or during the shot. Yeah, I relearned after more than 20 years... don't adjust so much, let the cue do some of the work for you and bam, ball in hole.

I wish LD did not work for me, I might have kept my Burton Spain cue and continued to play with it for another 25 years.

Weird how that works. Not sure why folks still believe that its' marketing thing, it's called technology. Is pool really the only sport on the planet that can't get better with equipment ?? But if'ts a choice of playing better or playing with a HOF cuemaker's cue, I'll take the WIN for $200 Alex

Again, why do Maple shaft folks need to "diss" LD as a gimmick ,scam or marketing thing. Why does this bother you so much. That to you, selling a pool shaft for $200 is a bigger scam than folks that sell Maple Shafts for.......wait for it.... the same price ? And in some cases much more.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Published squirt data...
Bend profile analysis...
Tip hardness...

Ahhh the joys of billiards

I use LD custom and OB shafts. I still play bad and don't practice nearly enough.

 

[garczar]

Hey baby...................

Published squirt data...
Bend profile analysis...
Tip hardness...

Ahhh the joys of billiards

I use LD custom and OB shafts. I still play bad and don't practice nearly enough.

"Based on the bend profile, tip hardness and squirt data, my shaft is the best" Is that pick-up line or WHAT!!

 

[Poolplayer2016]

MAPLE. PERIOD. I'm not into all this LD stuff, I personally think it's just a marketing thing same as a new cell phone every year. If it ain't broke don't fix it is how I see it. Now, if you like LD and you think it makes you play better great no worries! From the endless discussions I've read on this I get this out of it all - it in fact does not make you play better. It makes you HAVE TO RELEARN where to hit after 20 + years only to get the same result??? Bottom line is to me it seems to be NO difference what you can do with either MAPLE OR LD, just how you shoot it??????

Is pool really the only sport on the planet that can't get better with equipment ??
Again, why do Maple shaft folks need to "diss" LD as a gimmick ,scam or marketing thing. Why does this bother you so much. That to you, selling a pool shaft for $200 is a bigger scam than folks that sell Maple Shafts for.......wait for it.... the same price ? And in some cases much more.

BmoreMoney's golf clubs.

 

[louieatienza]

Published squirt data...
Bend profile analysis...
Tip hardness...

Ahhh the joys of billiards

I use LD custom and OB shafts. I still play bad and don't practice nearly enough.

"Based on the bend profile, tip hardness and squirt data, my shaft is the best" Is that pick-up line or WHAT!!

I think more people would get more joy out of this game, while helping the pool industry, by pairing someone with a cue that would actually work for their game, instead of the current business model of introducing a whiz-bang new technology every 6 months or a fancy new fall model that people think they have to buy to get better, or more likely just plain guessing what they need, when in fact it could be detrimental to their game. A house pro, fitter, or builder can take said person with slow motion video and explain to them exactly why they miss and why the cue they're using may be ruining their game. Interaction that seems to be almost non-existent in this game. And like the old adage says, if you don't take care of your customers... someone else will.

I also think with my theory of bend profile and frequency analysis, you'd be able to find two shafts with way different dimensions, that actually play similarly.

 

[Bank it]

I think more people would get more joy out of this game, while helping the pool industry, by pairing someone with a cue that would actually work for their game, instead of the current business model of introducing a whiz-bang new technology every 6 months or a fancy new fall model that people think they have to buy to get better, or more likely just plain guessing what they need, when in fact it could be detrimental to their game. A house pro, fitter, or builder can take said person with slow motion video and explain to them exactly why they miss and why the cue they're using may be ruining their game. Interaction that seems to be almost non-existent in this game. And like the old adage says, if you don't take care of your customers... someone else will.



I also think with my theory of bend profile and frequency analysis, you'd be able to find two shafts with way different dimensions, that actually play similarly.

Because it works for the industry, I've seen a million bangers with a whole quiver of various several hundred dollar apiece LD shafts in their JB Rugged's with pocket chalkers, pocket markers & all the bells & whistles. Still cant run 3 balls. They buy lots of stuff looking for a magic potion though

 

[Poolplayer2016]

Because it works for the industry, I've seen a million bangers with a whole quiver of various several hundred dollar apiece LD shafts in their JB Rugged's with pocket chalkers, pocket markers & all the bells & whistles. Still cant run 3 balls. They buy lots of stuff looking for a magic potion though

If they didn't have the ld shaft they might only run 2 balls. Every sport is like that..Look at all the yahoos playing golf.

 

[Gio Sr.]

All these things can be said about break tips $40.00, Chalk , playing tips.

Same on all different kinds of forums. Folks doing all kinds of high tech testing on anything. Dummies like me buying the stuff just for the heck of it.