Low Deflection Shafts (History Question)

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heater451

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I was on a Discord server, and someone mentioned Jacoby making cues for Predator. I commented about Jacoby pre-dating Predator by about a decade, but that Predator successfully marketed low deflection shafts, and have managed to overshadow older cuemakers due to that (and other factors).

Anyway, I'm sure that other makers (individuals and/or companies) had "experimented" with low deflection shafts (sectional, glued wood design), but can anyone confirm that Predator was the first to truly mass market low deflection shafts?
 
Good question...

I don't recall anything dubbed "Low Deflection" prior to Predator's 314 hitting the market. I think shortly there after the Meucci 'black dot' or something or other was released
 
heater451 said:
I was on a Discord server, and someone mentioned Jacoby making cues for Predator. I commented about Jacoby pre-dating Predator by about a decade, but that Predator successfully marketed low deflection shafts, and have managed to overshadow older cuemakers due to that (and other factors).

Anyway, I'm sure that other makers (individuals and/or companies) had "experimented" with low deflection shafts (sectional, glued wood design), but can anyone confirm that Predator was the first to truly mass market low deflection shafts?
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What's this discord you speak of? I haven't found any that are pool related. Feel free to PM me 🙂
 
heater451 said:
I was on a Discord server, and someone mentioned Jacoby making cues for Predator. I commented about Jacoby pre-dating Predator by about a decade, but that Predator successfully marketed low deflection shafts, and have managed to overshadow older cuemakers due to that (and other factors).

Anyway, I'm sure that other makers (individuals and/or companies) had "experimented" with low deflection shafts (sectional, glued wood design), but can anyone confirm that Predator was the first to truly mass market low deflection shafts?
Click to expand...
 
You may find it interesting that Dufferin was one of the companies approached by Predator to make their low deflection shaft. They of course decided not to make them and the rest is history.
 
Wasn't the Meucci black dots purpose to be an indicator of the grain direction in the shaft?
 
The_JV said:
... I don't recall anything dubbed "Low Deflection" prior to Predator's 314 hitting the market. I think shortly there after the Meucci 'black dot' or something or other was released
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I think Predator (Clawson Cues at the time) and Meucci were within a couple of years of each other in first promoting low squirt shafts. All of that happened in the last half of the 1990s, I believe. A quick survey of magazines of that decade should let you know who was first. The complete run of National Billiard News is available here:

www.azbilliards.com

Goldmine - AZBILLIARDS.COM

The A to Z of Pool and Billiards Online
www.azbilliards.com www.azbilliards.com

For the OP: Here is Dr. Dave's page on squirt (AKA "cue ball deflection"):

billiards.colostate.edu

Squirt and Cue Ball Deflection - Dr. Dave Pool Info

Answers to frequently-asked questions (FAQs) about how to judge and compensate for cue ball deflection (squirt) in pool shots with sidespin (english).
billiards.colostate.edu billiards.colostate.edu

According to the "Rosabelle Believe" post by Thomas Wayne, Clawson was looking for manufacturing partners in the early 1990s.
 
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In the late 80's Bob Muecci came to Starcher Billiards in Akron, Ohio showcasing his low deflection shafts. He personally demonstrated it to me on a table. I was playing with a Szamboti at the time and was a hard sale. But I did buy one later and really liked it.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
You probably already know that the lamination is for "radial consistency", not to reduce squirt - the hollow end of the shaft is to reduce squirt.

pj
chgo
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I know that low end mass (the hollow) is for squirt/deflection reduction, but was still thinking the radial wedges = stiffness = low deflection.

Thanks, for the correction.
 
heater451 said:
I was on a Discord server, and someone mentioned Jacoby making cues for Predator. I commented about Jacoby pre-dating Predator by about a decade, but that Predator successfully marketed low deflection shafts, and have managed to overshadow older cuemakers due to that (and other factors).

Anyway, I'm sure that other makers (individuals and/or companies) had "experimented" with low deflection shafts (sectional, glued wood design), but can anyone confirm that Predator was the first to truly mass market low deflection shafts?
Click to expand...
Jacoby made butts for predator they didn’t make the shafts. Predator was the first I remember showing up at the super billiards expo with a robot arm to show deflection and it was a radical new idea to everyone. Next was meucci who came with something that looked like he made it in a junkyard with is red dot shafts which were a joke lol
 
Wasn't it the meucci red dot shafts, where supposed to be flat laminated, in the mid to late 90s? That was before the black dot.
 
heater451 said:
I was on a Discord server, and someone mentioned Jacoby making cues for Predator. I commented about Jacoby pre-dating Predator by about a decade, but that Predator successfully marketed low deflection shafts, and have managed to overshadow older cuemakers due to that (and other factors).

Anyway, I'm sure that other makers (individuals and/or companies) had "experimented" with low deflection shafts (sectional, glued wood design), but can anyone confirm that Predator was the first to truly mass market low deflection shafts?
Click to expand...
The first company that I know of that marketed their shafts as “low deflection” and sometimes even going so far as saying “zero deflection” was Meucci in the late 80’s. That was before Predator (known as Clawson Cues at the time) had marketed their pie-spliced 314 shaft. For Meucci, this was long before their shafts with dots on them.

Plenty of cuemakers already knew deflection existed, but they all didn’t know what they could do to reduce it. Meucci went the route of lighter thermoplastic ferrules and longer delayed taper and assumed that both contributed to lower squirt.

Steve Titus was the genius behind the Predator shaft. Like Meucci, he did a couple things, hoping that at least one of the things reduced the deflection (lighter ferrule, hole in the shaft). I think Steve was savvy enough to know that pie splicing wasn’t a part of lowering cueball deflection.

Thomas Wayne was the first person on the internet to accurately describe how Predator was reducing cueball deflection ( Rosabelle Believe ). A lot of people owe their knowledge to Thomas on this.
 
Cue Alchemist said:
Wasn't it the meucci red dot shafts, where supposed to be flat laminated, in the mid to late 90s? That was before the black dot.
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Yup. he said the found the perfect spot on each shaft if you had that dot facing up it would be the shot with the lowest deflection. Meucci nonsense 😂.
 
trob said:
Yup. he said the found the perfect spot on each shaft if you had that dot facing up it would be the shot with the lowest deflection. Meucci nonsense 😂.
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Wasn't that spot on the straight grain side, so the shaft is most flexible sideways (not that it actually matters for squirt)?

pj
chgo
 
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heater451 said:
I know that low end mass (the hollow) is for squirt/deflection reduction, but was still thinking the radial wedges = stiffness = low deflection.

Thanks, for the correction.
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I still have one of the first mid-90s Predator shafts, but it wasn’t spliced (another that was, bought soon after, plays exactly the same). I also immediately sold my Gus S. cues when I realized how predictable was the Predator’s lower deflection in comparison.
 
Cornerman said:
The first company that I know of that marketed their shafts as “low deflection” and sometimes even going so far as saying “zero deflection” was Meucci in the late 80’s. That was before Predator (known as Clawson Cues at the time) had marketed their pie-spliced 314 shaft. For Meucci, this was long before their shafts with dots on them.

Plenty of cuemakers already knew deflection existed, but they all didn’t know what they could do to reduce it. Meucci went the route of lighter thermoplastic ferrules and longer delayed taper and assumed that both contributed to lower squirt.

Steve Titus was the genius behind the Predator shaft. Like Meucci, he did a couple things, hoping that at least one of the things reduced the deflection (lighter ferrule, hole in the shaft). I think Steve was savvy enough to know that pie splicing wasn’t a part of lowering cueball deflection.

Thomas Wayne was the first person on the internet to accurately describe how Predator was reducing cueball deflection ( Rosabelle Believe ). A lot of people owe their knowledge to Thomas on this.
Click to expand...
Hi Fred, long time....

Thanks, for the extra info (not that I don't appreciate everyone else's contributions). Also, thanks for "pie-spliced"....All I could think of was "sectional".
 
One thing I’ve never understood.

Are the laminate shafts made with junk wood? Or is it good northern maple laminated in a pie or flat pattern?

I’ve always played a solid wood shaft with a tight grain. Shoot it til it felt right.
 
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