Lowest deflection kielwood

[SeniorTom]

Is low deflection something that you really want, especially after years of maple shafts? Do players actually see their game improve with ld play? I am a 500 fargo player and I can alternate between wood and cf easily, without me noticing much. I actually think I prefer wood for feedback.

 

[Jerry R]

Is low deflection something that you really want, especially after years of maple shafts? Do players actually see their game improve with ld play? I am a 500 fargo player and I can alternate between wood and cf easily, without me noticing much. I actually think I prefer wood for feedback.

Like most things I think it's a compromise and only you can decide if it's worth the effort to retrain your brain for a LD shaft.

In my opinion low deflection can help mask some imperfections in a stroke. If you strike the ball slightly off from where you intended the results are not as dramatic as it would have been with a higher deflection shaft.

I personally find it difficult to masse or swerve with a LD shaft. Not really sure if that's just me or if it is because of the shafts, but it seems to be a thing.

For whatever it's worth, I know Oscar Domingez has said publicly that the reason he plays with the 12.9 Infuzed is because it has more deflection than the smaller shafts and he feels like he needs that.

 

[dendweller]

Is low deflection something that you really want, especially after years of maple shafts? Do players actually see their game improve with ld play? I am a 500 fargo player and I can alternate between wood and cf easily, without me noticing much. I actually think I prefer wood for feedback.

I guess the question is, what is the wood shaft and what is the cf shaft?

 

[skor]

so
after 100 posts
is there a consensus of which kielwood shaft has the lowest deflection

No one can answer that as there is no standardized measurements that manufactures can run and publish the results for us to know. And I'm sure if such test existed, most manufacturers wouldn't want us to know the truth as it easy to sell in a competitive market with buzz words than use real data that might show poor results...

No one here have enough KW shafts to be able to answer this either. and would you trust such an individual for accurate test results?
When I rate my shafts for deflections I get from the people here a response that it's just my experience with my stroke and aim, they could be right, who knows?

But as long as it gets the forum running and provide some people a place to vent, keep it going....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Shafts I own:
Hsunami V1 Keilwood
Diveney Keilwood
Kent Davis Maple
Cohen Maple
Jacoby V4 carbon
Pechauer V2 carbon
Rhino carbon
etc


Still 463 fargo, deflection is not my issue and tbh, I feel, as an item to be considered, so far down the list as to be nonexistent. I am sure at the upper echelons a factor but with all of the other physics, I have my hands full. If I didn’t have fun spending money, I would have stuck with my 30 year old Sneaky.

 

[skor]

Shafts I own:
Hsunami V1 Keilwood
Diveney Keilwood
Kent Davis Maple
Cohen Maple
Jacoby V4 carbon
Pechauer V2 carbon
Rhino carbon
etc


Still 463 fargo, deflection is not my issue and tbh, I feel, as an item to be considered, so far down the list as to be nonexistent. I am sure at the upper echelons a factor but with all of the other physics, I have my hands full. If I didn’t have fun spending money, I would have stuck with my 30 year old Sneaky.

If you use side spin of any kind then deflection is an issue to deal with regardless of your skill level, unless you're OK with missing the shot

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If you use side spin of any kind then deflection is an issue to deal with regardless of your skill level, unless you're OK with missing the shot

I miss all kinds of shots and I understand deflection. Not a hard concept. My point is, if I can’t deliver a stroke deflection is moot. As others have pointed out, one can compensate based on the understanding of their equipment.

When I stack rank items of importance from my delivery to my equipment, buying the latest low deflection device relative to the low deflection devices I already own is a fool’s errand. I need more reps, more table time, more Dr. Dave videos, not another shaft…

 

[TeddyKGB]

I miss all kinds of shots and I understand deflection. Not a hard concept. My point is, if I can’t deliver a stroke deflection is moot. As others have pointed out, one can compensate based on the understanding of their equipment.

When I stack rank items of importance from my delivery to my equipment, buying the latest low deflection device relative to the low deflection devices I already own is a fool’s errand. I need more reps, more table time, more Dr. Dave videos, not another shaft…

but if you play with a shaft that offers little to no deflection, you can aim as usual while still applying spin to get your desired cue ball position. Youre correct in that , if you CANT deliver a ball straight with a good stroke, than deflection isnt your problem. But if you CAN hit a ball straight consistently, low deflection can increase your consistency while applying spin, which in turn can make the game easier by gaining cue ball control

 

[SeniorTom]

Could it be said that with a shaft that has more deflection, probably the maple shaft, you can apply more torque to the cue ball with more action than a stiff carbon fiber shaft? A lot of people are so used to Wood, and the deflection it offers, that wood is there go to shaft. I have been playing with wood for a few weeks to a month now and I just like what it offers. Now I can play well with carbon fiber, but something about wood seems to make me more confident.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

“ which in turn can make the game easier by gaining cue ball control”

Yes, consistency is key!

Easier? That is subjective. As always I think it is a semantic distinction.

If I was a 650+ it would make sense that I look to squeeze every advantage out of my equipment. If I was a 750+ I would look to what “feels” good and maximize my performance by removing any distractions. In other words, at that point I would think what feels good trumps tech.

But what do I know…

 

[Bavafongoul]

Is low deflection something that you really want, especially after years of maple shafts? Do players actually see their game improve with ld play? I am a 500 fargo player and I can alternate between wood and cf easily, without me noticing much. I actually think I prefer wood for feedback.

Yes……Kielwood is better……I’ve been playing with wood cue shafts from 1962 almost thru 2024.
In October that same year, I acquired my 1st KW shaft. I now have 4 KW shafts from 2 different
cue builders. I still have the orig. maple shafts that have similar specs to the KW shafts, at least the
weight is the same. I only play the KW shafts and switch them so I can play any cue in my cue case.

Absolutely yes, the KW shafts are lower deflection and that’s a good thing because the sound and feel
of your stroke doesn’t suffer, the wood feels natural, sight adjustment is minimal with 60-90 mins.of
solitary practice. If you find the right cue maker, get a KW shaft to match the weight of your orig. shafts.
Mine are 4 ozs. so it can sometimes take awhile when all your cue joints are flat faced big pin threads.

 

[dendweller]

but if you play with a shaft that offers little to no deflection, you can aim as usual while still applying spin to get your desired cue ball position

It would make life easier if this was true but there a number of factors which make this a little incomplete including the swerve you cause on the cue ball by spinning it, the speed you hit the ball, the adjustment you need on your aim to account for ball induced throw and the effect the spinning cue ball has on the object ball. If you get these all to cancel each other out you have found nirvana. On the other hand if you consciously think about these things when shooting a match you will probably loose. Pool is hard.

 

[TeddyKGB]

It would make life easier if this was true but there a number of factors which make this a little incomplete including the swerve you cause on the cue ball by spinning it, the speed you hit the ball, the adjustment you need on your aim to account for ball induced throw and the effect the spinning cue ball has on the object ball. If you get these all to cancel each other out you have found nirvana. On the other hand if you consciously think about these things when shooting a match you will probably loose. Pool is hard.

I totally agree, i think a little deflection can correct spin induced throw from an aiming standpoint. I shoot with a z3 and can aim dead on with spin and sometimes miss simply because i forgot about the throw on the object ball

 

[Kim Bye]

If KW was such a holly grail, a company like Predator would have been all over it by now. But it makes no sense for a companies that lead in the performance and the technology aspect of the cue to deal with something that doesn't perform as well...

Firstly, I'm not saying Kielwood is the holy grail, but the logic of thinking that a company that mainly focuses on profit will jump on a significally more expensive product in terms raw material cost is flawed. So I would discount that logic. I did ask Kazunori Miki personally when he visited me back in 2021 if Mezz would consider Kielwood and he was very quick to say no.
Personally I have made several Kielwood shafts and there's upsides and downsides. They are brittle, so cutting threads for the tennon needs a really sharp single pitch threadmill and threading the shafts for any big pin is best done by gluing in an insert of a less brittle material. The upsides is the harder surface and that you can turn the shafts quicker from dowel or square to a final diameter than you can with a maple shaft.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Firstly, I'm not saying Kielwood is the holy grail, but the logic of thinking that a company that mainly focuses on profit will jump on a significally more expensive product in terms raw material cost is flawed. So I would discount that logic. I did ask Kazunori Miki personally when he visited me back in 2021 if Mezz would consider Kielwood and he was very quick to say no.
Personally I have made several Kielwood shafts and there's upsides and downsides. They are brittle, so cutting threads for the tennon needs a really sharp single pitch threadmill and threading the shafts for any big pin is best done by gluing in an insert of a less brittle material. The upsides is the harder surface and that you can turn the shafts quicker from dowel or square to a final diameter than you can with a maple shaft.

I agree. Big business always for lowest capital investment, maximize return. The high-end part of it is just for flexing.

 

[Cue Alchemist]

It would make life easier if this was true but there a number of factors which make this a little incomplete including the swerve you cause on the cue ball by spinning it, the speed you hit the ball, the adjustment you need on your aim to account for ball induced throw and the effect the spinning cue ball has on the object ball. If you get these all to cancel each other out you have found nirvana. On the other hand if you consciously think about these things when shooting a match you will probably loose. Pool is hard.

Excellent description, of whats its like shooting with any shaft, i used mine on and off for the last year, it doesn't feel any different (just a bit stiffer) than what im use too. I can only compare to the solid old growth shafts i use.

Nothing amazing. im pretty happy if i get my 12.65mm with a long taper. Heavy ferrule, But i know what i like.
Like dendweller said, best not think about the other stuff. Just put the time in, Because i only use the same type. I don't even notice the deflection, i just play.
I don't know what Bavafongoul (matt) has, had made, maybe he has found his holly grail. In those shafts

 

[Bavafongoul]

Thanks for remembering me. I have found what I want and it was a bitch to get done. I got a lot of crap from others telling me I was wrong despite decades of evidence I was right. And I contacted a lot of cue makers that either didn’t know what I wanted could even be built since they said they couldn’t. Some builders told me they could build the shaft but the shaft had to bevcored and weight added to meet my specs. They were all were wrong & talking out their asses.

I have four KW shafts in my case that they said they couldn’t be built and I’d even get more but I want matching custom rings for my cues that would add hundreds to the price of a KW shaft. So in a matter of speaking, I finally got lucky and found some cue makers to build exactly what I wanted made. The 80/20 rule for shafts is valid and but some people still disagree.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Deflection is not a bad thing if you know how to use it?

Got an example?

pj
chgo

 

[Bavafongoul]

Yup, I do…….every politician regardless of their party affiliation or topic being questioned about, have mastered how to use deflection even when it makes them look incredibly moronish, devious & dishonest. But all of them keep doing it to all of us.

 

[SeniorTom]

sheeesh, even when we talk about pool related topics, politics tries to poison it. Save political point of views for the non-pool-related section, people here don't want to talk about that trash!