Mark Tad?
- Thread starter thebigdog
- Start date
I have a neighbor (I live near St Louis) who was a champion level foosball player in the 80s/90s. (I didn't even know that was a thing, but apparently it was) and my neighbor was a state champion, and had come close to winning some kind of world championship.
Anyway, he had no idea I played pool, and all I knew about him was that he owns a business and is extremely religious, and straight laced. A really nice man. Well, we got to talking about pool and he started sharing some of his history. Apparently he was much wilder in his younger years (who wasn't). Back in the day Mark Tadd came to St Louis gambling with everyone, at everything. Well, the pool room owner called my neighbor, to sneak him in and bust Mark playing foosball. Which he did easily but, they became really good friends.
My neighbor said that he would drive Mark around and they'd go on road trips. He said that he was in amazement at just how talented Mark was at everything he tried. He had a real core belief in himself too. But also, that he was simple person and wasn't flashy. He liked wearing plain t-shirts and nothing fancy. But loved gambling and was really good at it (pool or poker). He said for a short time they were really good friends. He did try to catch up with Mark years later, but Mark is elusive.
Anyway, he had no idea I played pool, and all I knew about him was that he owns a business and is extremely religious, and straight laced. A really nice man. Well, we got to talking about pool and he started sharing some of his history. Apparently he was much wilder in his younger years (who wasn't). Back in the day Mark Tadd came to St Louis gambling with everyone, at everything. Well, the pool room owner called my neighbor, to sneak him in and bust Mark playing foosball. Which he did easily but, they became really good friends.
My neighbor said that he would drive Mark around and they'd go on road trips. He said that he was in amazement at just how talented Mark was at everything he tried. He had a real core belief in himself too. But also, that he was simple person and wasn't flashy. He liked wearing plain t-shirts and nothing fancy. But loved gambling and was really good at it (pool or poker). He said for a short time they were really good friends. He did try to catch up with Mark years later, but Mark is elusive.
My neighbor, who was friends with Mark, said Mark was a great poker player. He said while on the road Mark would sniff out a poker game...and usually come back to the room flush after busting it. He said he was always amazed at that. The guy was a killer.
The last time I saw Mark Tadd was at Derby City 2010-2015. I’d have to go back and look at footage from those years.
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The best player you've ever seen..?You mean live..?He was a good player but nowhere near the speed of pools elite.
I think that’s a bit of a simplistic take on Mark’s game. He wasn’t JUST a threat to beat anyone. he did beat just about everyone, regularly. The fact that he didn’t grind out five day tournaments doesn’t mean he couldn’t win them. It just means he wasn’t interested in living on the hamster wheel, making money for tour promoters. Mark wasn’t about running marathons for others. He walk in and snap off the best player in the room on the regular. There wasn’t much if anything to knock about his game.
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Different goals, different priorities. I’m not knocking any of the legends who ran marathons. Some could match up for the cash, some not so much, but however they built their legacies, on tour or off, they earned every bit of it.
It’s just different strokes for different folks. Tournament life wasn’t the only path to greatness. And you won’t catch me discrediting any of them I just recognize there was more than one way to be the best in the room… and it wasn’t always the guy you’d expect. That’s a fact.
I'm just saying the name Mark Tadd never really comes up in conversation of the best players tournament or money games.
If he was that great of a player there would be confirmed stories of his matchups and their outcome.I don't even know if he beat
everyone on a regular basis.I mean, I haven't heard that he beat Buddy, Earl or Efren once let alone regularly...his speed reminds me
of that of George Sansouci, who beat a lot of top players but was never elite either.
If he was that great of a player there would be confirmed stories of his matchups and their outcome.I don't even know if he beat
everyone on a regular basis.I mean, I haven't heard that he beat Buddy, Earl or Efren once let alone regularly...his speed reminds me
of that of George Sansouci, who beat a lot of top players but was never elite either.
I would agree that Mark Tadd's elite status shined during a very brief window of time but it did shine bright. Look up the LA OPEN I believe it was. Mark beat the best in the world in multiple disciplines. I just don't think his heart was in tournament play. I would ask that you search the forum for threads on Mark Tadd, and then argue that Mark definitely earned his own legendary status within our billiards history since so many people love to share stories of his mythic exploits.
Okay look, your earlier post had a bit of a dismissive tone about how well Mark Tadd played. I’m not arguing that he belongs in the Hall of Fame and I get that his career was short. But during the time he was playing, he could run with anyone in the country. He wasn’t just a threat to possibly beat a top player when he matched up, he was probably going to win. Did he win every time? Of course not. No one does.
Saying you never heard of him beating Buddy, Earl, or Efren, not even once… that’s a naive take. I don’t even know if they ever matched up. Buddy’s from a generation before Mark and wasn’t even in his era during each other’s prime. You’re trying to make a point that doesn’t really hold. Not every great player from the past played every other great player from across the country. Some did more than other. And you’re never going to hear pros admit who they ducked.
I feel for some people on here that pose questions and they are relying on all the answers they get from folks here. There’s a lot of good info here on AZB, but there’s also a lot of noise. I’ve been around pool off and on most of my life, and I’m lucky enough be able to sift through the BS. I know who to listen to that know more than me and I know who’s just here to hear themselves talk. I’m not saying you’re one of those guys, but when it comes to dismissing certain players especially the gamblers who stayed out of the spotlight I’ll always step in. They’re part of the game’s rich history. In fact, without them, the history wouldn’t be nearly as colorful or as real. And make no mistake, some of them did play the game as well as anyone ever has.
If you don’t like gambling I can respect that but don’t disrespect or disparage those that do or did. If you think gamblers are always looking for an edge and that’s what you don’t like I’d argue that’s what goes on in any competition. Look no further than Wax Gate.
As for “confirmed matchups,” that’s just not how it worked. That wasn’t the era of cell phones, streaming, or social media. A lot of the best action was completely off the record, and that’s the way real gamblers did it. Back then gamblers weren’t mainstream and even then their mentality didn’t translate well to people who didn’t live in that world. And even more difficult to understand for people in today’s generation that chase Fargo points or social media clout. Some ask, “If he was so good, why didn’t he play tournaments?” Again, it’s a different mentality. For some guys, the spotlight meant nothing and preferred to stay in the shadows. Their rush isn’t a trophy or the limelight and for some it wasn’t even the money but make no mistakes all the greats weren’t playing on tours. They couldn’t care less if others thought otherwise, in fact they welcomed that doubt … that was the hustle!
As for George Sansouci, look, I’m not going to tear down any player. If you think he and Mark were on the same level, I’ll leave it there. But matching up is a whole different skill set than what most people see or think. Just because a pro gambles doesn’t mean they’re good at it. Mark wasgood at it. That’s who he was, a gambler. And that’s probably why he walked away from pool, there was more money in cards.
I love this game and I’ve got a deep respect for anyone who loves it like I do and chooses to be involved in some way. Some are fortunate enough to play well enough to make a living at it. Others are smart enough to realize they won’t, can’t, or don’t want to make it as players, but still find their place, whether it’s through promoting, cue making, room ownership, or something else within the industry. And more power to them.
But don’t kid yourself, the players aren’t the ones with the real power in this game. It’s the promoters and the industry that call the shots. Everyone’s just trying to carve out a lane. And I’ve always had the utmost respect for the gamblers who figured out how to do it on their own terms. Why? Because I’ve always walked to my own beat and I feel they have the same mindset.
Like I said earlier, a lot of gamblers wanted no part of that hamster wheel, grinding it out to make money for tour promoters. And to be honest, that dynamic isn’t unique to pool. It’s just life.
I have a son who was a high school All-American and went on to play Division I baseball. I also had a daughter who was a state champion gymnast. And something I realized early on that really stuck with me is that all those tournaments and meets weren’t really for the majority of kids. They were for the VERY few that had a shot at getting noticed, earning a scholarship, or going pro. Everyone else? They were there to support the system, fueling the coaches’ club teams, helping tournament promoters and the industry make money.
It’s no different in pool. The structure is built to serve the top few, while the rest keep the machine running. Tournaments more often than not, are part of a business model that works great for someone else.
And the truth is, even for the handful of truly great players, staying in contention for the real money has always been a grind. That’s why I respect the people and players who chose to operate outside that system or the lanes of life as long as long as they are good people.
Peace out.
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I don’t know what your take is that would qualify a player as elite in your mind. I’m also not going to, as someone else so aptly put it, tear a player down, but since you equate Mark’s speed to that of Ginky, here’s something to think about. Ginky didn’t pick up a cue until he was almost 19. 6 years later he was named Billiard Digests pro rookie of the year. In a nine month stretch from late ‘98 into ‘99 he won the Camel Pro Charlotte 10 ball championship, the BCA Open 9 ball championship, and National Straight Pool Championship. Then the 2000 Derby City Classic 9-ball. Sadly an injury shortly after this stretch derailed his game and career. In 2009 he ran 343 balls in 14:1 at Slates, 10 years after that accident that took his best game. While his career was short, he was elite and he was a friend I’d never disparage. Having said that, Mark was a LOT faster than Ginky, Mark wasn’t elite, he was freaking intergalactic, and more unnerving was, he made it look effortless, at times almost seeming disinterested, bored with it. There was a point that he’d play anybody for the cash, and no one had to like it.
There was a period of time that he definitely played at an elite speed in most disciplines.
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Ask them in LA how good he played, didn't he win 2 of 3 tournaments, the big ones? @jay helfert
By elite I mean the best players that won tournaments and placed highly in a lot of them.I think Grady mentioned in an accu stats commentary that in the 70'ies Buddy won 12 out of 14 tournaments finishing second in the other two.Thats elite to me.
I have nothing against gambling, and there were and are many greats that did so ''and'' played in tournaments.But I don't see how me not having heard of him Beating Buddy or Earl qualifies me as being naive..(?)He played in tournaments in the 90-ies, as there are accu stats matches with him playing Davenport and Sigel so he could and most likely has encountered other top pros from that era.And cell phones were not necessary to document big matches back then, people were there and would have chimed in by now, I would suspect.I mean, there were no cameras or phones when Archer ran 13 racks against Bustamente but the whole pool world knew very quickly what took place.
And I wasn't trying to be dismissive of his talent at all but was saying that, from what I have seen or read about him that no way was he the best player in the world at any time, tournament play or gambling and until someone credible (Jay Helfert comes to mind, who I am sure has forgotten more about pool than I will ever know) tells me otherwise this will remain my opinion.
That being said, I read that Mark was stricken with a grave illness and I wish him nothing but the very best on his way to recovery.
Peace, love, happiness and most importantly good health to all of us
Ask them in LA how good he played, didn't he win 2 of 3 tournaments, the big ones? @jay helfert
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He won the 9-ball against Hatch, the banks (dont know against who) and finished second in one pocket to Cook.