Mark Wilson - CB or OB Last - Age Old Issue

[RT Ford]

Well at negotiation my answer is, "whatever is comfortable. "
Ooops well I thought I was responding to , "Make it easy on yourself".
So as to me putting up a video....Nah. I don't give free samples.
I won't be going to Ohio, so no point in the imaginary dance. Unless of course you expect to travel through Kingman to Vegas.
My Fargo is mid 500s and easy enough to look up.

Well, I'm an 'A' player, so I wouldn't play you for money anyway. No offense intended.

 

[3kushn]

To the OP
Mark didn't instruct me to look at the CB last, and his youtube shorts don't either.
Maybe that's already been said here.

For me, not being a Pro, I look at the CB when the Tip Placement is the most important consideration.
Otherwise... the OB is in focus.

 

[gregcantrall]

Well, I'm an 'A' player, so I wouldn't play you for money anyway. No offense intended.

I don't understand it's been more than 10 years since the BCAPL kicked me up to Masters. My Fargo at that time was around 625. (Bumped 630 for a week ). Shirley you jest. Shrug
Playing the 650s in the Masters was a fun challenge. I only won one match in my one attempt in the Masters in Lincoln City Oregon. It however was a doozie.
My first win in Lincoln City was Seniors 9 ball which required a one year elevation to A. I didn't play the next year so was eligible to play Seniors 8 ball 2 years later. I won it too. Then as an A I got 4th in the 9 ball event that year. The top 10 percent in the A division got me sent to the Masters. In the Masters 8 ball I played Kenny Dodd who had just dropped from the Grand Masters. In a race to 6 we were 3-3 when he broke and ran. Then he ran on my dry break. Then he broke and ran to his key ball which he hung with ball in hand shape on the 8 ball. I won from there. So no, I understand and am not offended, if you "take it easy on yourself."

 

[RT Ford]

I don't understand it's been more than 10 years since the BCAPL kicked me up to Masters. My Fargo at that time was around 625. (Bumped 630 for a week ). Shirley you jest. Shrug
Playing the 650s in the Masters was a fun challenge. I only won one match in my one attempt in the Masters in Lincoln City Oregon. It however was a doozie.
My first win in Lincoln City was Seniors 9 ball which required a one year elevation to A. I didn't play the next year so was eligible to play Seniors 8 ball 2 years later. I won it too. Then as an A I got 4th in the 9 ball event that year. The top 10 percent in the A division got me sent to the Masters. In the Masters 8 ball I played Kenny Dodd who had just dropped from the Grand Masters. In a race to 6 we were 3-3 when he broke and ran. Then he ran on my dry break. Then he broke and ran to his key ball which he hung with ball in hand shape on the 8 ball. I won from there. So no, I understand and am not offended, if you "take it easy on yourself."

"I won't be going to Ohio, so no point in the imaginary dance. Unless of course you expect to travel through Kingman to Vegas.My Fargo is mid 500s and easy enough to look up."

You said your Fargo is in the mid 500s. I know very little about 'Fargo' but I looked it up and it says that a 500 is about average. That's what I based my statement on. By the way, it's 'Make it easy on yourself', which means, whatever you can comfortably afford to bet.

 

[gregcantrall]

"I won't be going to Ohio, so no point in the imaginary dance. Unless of course you expect to travel through Kingman to Vegas.My Fargo is mid 500s and easy enough to look up."

You said your Fargo is in the mid 500s. I know very little about 'Fargo' but I looked it up and it says that a 500 is about average. That's what I based my statement on. By the way, it's 'Make it easy on yourself', which means, whatever you can comfortably afford to bet.

$50 Three ball is comfortable.

 

[u12armresl]

Make it easy on yourself. Tell ya what, you put a video on this site, showing yourself running a table, looking at the cue ball last, and we'll play.

Can't you just name a date? Greg is good for his word, why should he have to produce a video to show you in order to play?

 

[nine_ball6970]

Rodney Morris said that people who look at cue ball last have better cue ball control. Players who look at object ball last are better shotmakers. He said he and Efren look at cue ball last. Jeremy Jones also says cue ball last. I think you can do either if you are able to stay focused on your target. The only thing with cue ball last is you may rise up early to see where the cue ball is going.

 

[RT Ford]

Rodney Morris said that people who look at cue ball last have better cue ball control. Players who look at object ball last are better shotmakers. He said he and Efren look at cue ball last. Jeremy Jones also says cue ball last. I think you can do either if you are able to stay focused on your target. The only thing with cue ball last is you may rise up early to see where the cue ball is going.

You can actually do either. It depends on the shot.

 

[RT Ford]

$50 Three ball is comfortable.

Good. See ya in Canton.

 

[gregcantrall]

Rodney Morris said that people who look at cue ball last have better cue ball control. Players who look at object ball last are better shotmakers. He said he and Efren look at cue ball last. Jeremy Jones also says cue ball last. I think you can do either if you are able to stay focused on your target. The only thing with cue ball last is you may rise up early to see where the cue ball is going.

My experience is just the opposite. I popped up early with the eyes, on occasion. Keeping my focus on the interaction of the cueball and cue tip eliminated that occasional tendency for me.
I did get the question to Efren on a podcast and he said, "object ball last".
Cueball control is the advantage for me with equal shotmaking. My earliest success was object ball last. With shot making being my strength at that time. Now that I am older, the cueball control makes the pure shot making a less often requirement. My Fargo is still dropping however I feel like my game is stronger. Hmmmm???? Perhaps I am delusional. Perhaps I need to stay on the short track. No endurance events.

 

[Mensabum]

CB- OB....who needs to see either........If you want to calm your stroke down.....just play racks with your eyes closed.....Set up get perfectly aligned....right before you pull the trigger....close your eyes....

Funny you should say that. I have a quick drill I set up occasionally to check my stroke by setting up 4 or 5 balls on the headstring across the table, taking one stroke to see where I'm hitting the cue ball, then turn my head away and fire the ball in the corner pocket downtable. Left or right makes no diff. If you can do this consistently then your mechanics are in good shape, nice and straight and you're good to go.

 

[gregcantrall]

Funny you should say that. I have a quick drill I set up occasionally to check my stroke by setting up 4 or 5 balls on the headstring across the table, taking one stroke to see where I'm hitting the cue ball, then turn my head away and fire the ball in the corner pocket downtable. Left or right makes no diff. If you can do this consistently then your mechanics are in good shape, nice and straight and you're good to go.

This brings back a cherished memory of Cole Dickson. He was flirting with the waitress and knocked the back off the pocket with the game ball, while looking deeply into her eyes.

 

[jayman]

CB last or OB last. The age old issue. Here's what Mark Wilson said in his column in June of 2023 in Billiards Digest.

"It makes no difference where the eyes are on the final stroke delivery....."

r/DCP

It makes no difference if your eyes are closed either. As long as everything was in perfect alignment when the cue hit the ball. I find that to be a
true statement that is rather ambiguous. It matters to most real world players and the shots they can actually make reliably.
Evan Clark and I were once discussing a Schon shaft I was very disappointment in due to poor grain and actual knots in it. And I said its very distracting and I can't believe you'd argue about it with me. He responded that I should be looking at the ball when I shoot or I don't what I'm doing anyway. He wasn't exactly wrong but the shaft still sucked. In typical Schon fashion, He did nothing about the ugly ass shaft either.

 

[garczar]

Rodney Morris said that people who look at cue ball last have better cue ball control. Players who look at object ball last are better shotmakers. He said he and Efren look at cue ball last. Jeremy Jones also says cue ball last. I think you can do either if you are able to stay focused on your target. The only thing with cue ball last is you may rise up early to see where the cue ball is going.

I've watched Rodney in person more than once and he looks at OB last on virtually every shot. A lot of this is 'feel vs. real', what they think they do and what they actually do aren't the same. Efren looks at OB last also. I've seen him multiple times and its obvious.

 

[BRKNRUN]

Funny you should say that. I have a quick drill I set up occasionally to check my stroke by setting up 4 or 5 balls on the headstring across the table, taking one stroke to see where I'm hitting the cue ball, then turn my head away and fire the ball in the corner pocket downtable. Left or right makes no diff. If you can do this consistently then your mechanics are in good shape, nice and straight and you're good to go.

I don't turn my head....I just right at the pause lock in a visual on my target and then right before the stroke close my eyes...(but I try and keep the visual)....I will do it with straight in shots...but I also will throw balls out and try and run racks that way....You become very aware of everything else going on in your stroke and it also (IMO) causes you to slow your stoke down and take a more deliberate stroke.....IMO a fantastic practice drill.

 

[boogieman]

I don't turn my head....I just right at the pause lock in a visual on my target and then right before the stroke close my eyes...(but I try and keep the visual)....I will do it with straight in shots...but I also will throw balls out and try and run racks that way....You become very aware of everything else going on in your stroke and it also (IMO) causes you to slow your stoke down and take a more deliberate stroke.....IMO a fantastic practice drill.

This is what I find so powerful about CB last. If you get your fundamentals to the point you can make it without looking, you can absolutely pinpoint the contact on the CB. But you can also still see the OB in your peripheral vision in most instances. As long as the OB doesn't jump or something you know you're still aiming at it correctly. I don't use it on all shots but when I need to be very deliberate with the CB it sure helps a lot. I'd guess even ardent OB last folks may look at CB last when jacked up over a rail or ball.

Those long shots where for some reason you have to draw back a table length... it's much easier when focusing on CB last, for me at least. I had a long time friend and practice partner comment that that's one shot he struggles with after I shot one.

You don't need precision on all strikes but when you do CB last is one way you can be certain you are striking your intended target with great accuracy.

 

[Mensabum]

This brings back a cherished memory of Cole Dickson. He was flirting with the waitress and knocked the back off the pocket with the game ball, while looking deeply into her eyes.

You sure it was the pocket, and not the back of her head?? That deeply, I mean...

 

[gregcantrall]

You sure it was the pocket, and not the back of her head?? That deeply, I mean...

Fortunately the cute young waitress was our niece. With my wife overseeing her interaction with ....uh er Pool Players, their interaction was kept public. Cole's "Dennis the Menace" sales pitch was working.

 

[gregcantrall]

The coarse control and the fine control have 2 knobs on my metal detector. Just as sharpening a knife where working the fine stone come After the coarse stone.
So a stable platform and efficient mechanics combined with perfect balance would be My coarse stone. The fine stone is the precision of the strike to the white ball. Speed/spin/vector. Precision, (for me) starting with the strike leads to Precision of placement of the white. Especially on simple shots. So I can't(Oops won't ) go back to object ball last .

 

[OldOrvis]

I usually turn all the lights off and hit balls in the dark then I dont worry about where I look last