Matchroom dumps WPA!

[Cameron Smith]

Barry did save snooker from the dire slump it was in, I didn’t like everything he did (especially messing with the UK championship format), but I can’t deny he turned the game around with more prize money, more tournaments and proper professional management. He also turned the darts into a multi-million pound game, and his son Eddie shook up the world of boxing. None of this would have happened without Barry and his team.

If he says Matchroom can make pool a multi-million dollar game with a proper professional tour, he has a proven track record, and I don’t doubt he can do it.

Then what have the WPA done? As far as I can tell their biggest achievement was taking the crown jewel of pool, the world 9-ball and having it played in a warehouse somewhere in the middle-east. If it wasn’t for Matchroom then it seems to me the pool calendar would be vastly diminished.

I‘ve only followed 9-ball for the past couple of years, but it’s an entertaining watch. It would be great to see these players playing for proper money, the kind of money in snooker and darts.

Yes, great summary. Ultimately, there needs to be a central guiding organization at the top level and the WPA has demonstrated they aren’t it. We also can’t have multiple world rankings because which are people supposed to follow? So there are two choices, use the WPA rankings or use the matchroom rankings. They can’t use the WPA rankings because it’s a mess and it also allows players gain points towards their invitationals from non-matchroom affiliated events. So that leaves them in their current situation.

If their tour reaches their objectives and starts paying even close fo what snooker players receive, that by itself will bulldoze the competition unless they can keep up. If players can make six figures just from matchroom events they will be less likely play in smaller events. And finally, competing growing tours can’t avoid overlapping each other forever. There are only so many weeks in the year and both CSI and Matchroom have limited wiggle room with their schedules.

 

[FastManners]

That would take a while. This thread gives a taste of what they're about though.

The international governing body of pool, the WPA, does a ranking list based on player performances in all the events that warrant inclusion based on the prize funds levels and strength of competition etc no matter who the promoters are. Matchroom does their own internal rankings list based only on Matchroom produced events and those from their affiliates who have agreed to allow Matchroom to have the ultimate say on things and which excludes any events outside of that.

Matchroom has just told the WPA that they must stop doing their own independent list that will include any event regardless of promoter and instead let Matchroom make their Matchroom only events rankings list the new official WPA rankings list.

Now why would Matchroom would be so insistent on taking over the independent WPA's official 9 ball ranking list and replacing it with their own? It is because it would effectively give them the power to completely control all of 9 ball and prevent any competition. They would be able to easily strong arm any other promoters into having to do whatever Matchroom wants, otherwise Matchroom would simply not allow their event to count towards the official rankings which would generally effectively kill off that event. It would also give Matchroom the ability to control the players because if Matchroom didn't like what a player was doing or what events they were playing they could simply remove that player from the official rankings list.

In short Matchroom is attempting to secure the power that would give them total control over the sport and the players and would allow them to be able to keep anybody else from being able to compete against them.

Thank you for the detailed response. I am not sure that makes them corrupt as such, more ruthless.
I personally think they are the best thing to happen to pool for decades, but I was around for them revolutionizing the snooker scene. I definitely recommend watching The Rack Pack on Youtube, it is a good watch and also paints a pretty good picture of both Barry Hearn and what made snooker players household names.

Anyway, I don't doubt that some moves they have made are shitty at best, but I guess it comes down to what do we think will benefit pool and pool players the most long term.

 

[pagaspoling]

If their tour reaches their objectives and starts paying even close fo what snooker players receive, that by itself will bulldoze the competition unless they can keep up. If players can make six figures just from matchroom events they will be less likely play in smaller events. And finally, competing growing tours can’t avoid overlapping each other forever. There are only so many weeks in the year and both CSI and Matchroom have limited wiggle room with their schedules.

By looking at CueTracker and AzBilliards money list you can see that FSR after this year (261.350 dollars=215.375 pounds) would be ranked nr 10 on the snooker prize money list for 2022. I was a bit surprised when a saw this because I thought that snooker players made lots more from prize money than pool players do. Ronnie is #1 on 916.000 pounds so thats much more than FSR but still not as bad as you'd expect.

 

[Cameron Smith]

By looking at CueTracker and AzBilliards money list you can see that FSR after this year (261.350 dollars=215.375 pounds) would be ranked nr 10 on the snooker prize money list for 2022. I was a bit surprised when a saw this because I thought that snooker players made lots more from prize money than pool players do. Ronnie is #1 on 916.000 pounds so thats much more than FSR but still not as bad as you'd expect.

Keep in mind though that FSR played in 28 events and someone like Mark Williams played in just 14. There are also no entry fees on the WST so expenses are less in some cases. But yes pool has made large strides in the last 3-4 years. In years prior I would have expected a number like that to be inflated by some big challenge matches.

 

[Philthepockets]

Keep in mind though that FSR played in 28 events and someone like Mark Williams played in just 14. There are also no entry fees on the WST so expenses are less in some cases. But yes pool has made large strides in the last 3-4 years. In years prior I would have expected a number like that to be inflated by some big challenge matches.

Also, prize money was down about 4 million GBP with the China dates off the calendar. When tour is in full swing there is about 20 Million GBP up for grabs.

 

[mista335]

We also can’t have multiple world rankings because which are people supposed to follow? So there are two choices, use the WPA rankings or use the matchroom rankings.

I guess it just isn't getting through to some people.

The WPA rankings are ALL disciplines of pool.

Matchroom's rankings are 9 ball ONLY. They wanted the WPA to recognise their 9 ball rankings as the official 9 ball rankings.

The WPA has NO 9 ball only rankings.

In any case I like Barry Hearns comment "...it means that our events will continue without their sanction because we’re going to outgrow the world that they live in."

If players can make six figures just from matchroom events they will be less likely play in smaller events.

So you don't want the players to make big money because they won't then play in smaller events?

I wonder how many players would put their hand up and say this is a good idea?

 

[buckshotshoey]

I guess it just isn't getting through to some people.

The WPA rankings are ALL disciplines of pool.

Matchroom's rankings are 9 ball ONLY. They wanted the WPA to recognise their 9 ball rankings as the official 9 ball rankings.

The WPA has NO 9 ball only rankings.

In any case I like Barry Hearns comment "...it means that our events will continue without their sanction because we’re going to outgrow the world that they live in."



So you don't want the players to make big money because they won't then play in smaller events?

I wonder how many players would put their hand up and say this is a good idea?

We understand that concept perfectly. But... I would like to have someone answer this simple question....

What has the WPA done, on the scale that Matchroom has done, to grow any of the cue sport disciplines in the last year? The last 5 years? The last decade?

As far as I can tell, they've done nothing to make themselves visible to the public. Nothing to make themselves stand out as a leader in pool. Nothing to indicate any type of growth. Nothing to generate interest. They have stagnated. As i said in I previous post. They need to shit, or get off the pot.

 

[kling&allen]

We understand that concept perfectly. But... I would like to have someone answer this simple question....

What has the WPA done, on the scale that Matchroom has done, to grow any of the cue sport disciplines in the last year? The last 5 years? The last decade?

As far as I can tell, they've done nothing to make themselves visible to the public. Nothing to make themselves stand out as a leader in pool. Nothing to indicate any type of growth. Nothing to generate interest. They have stagnated. As i said in I previous post. They need to shit, or get off the pot.

I fully agree with you and the others in this thread on the failures of the WPA. Those who support the WPA (not me), say that the WPA and its Olympic connections provide a reason for developing nations to support pool and fund athletes, so without the WPA we will have fewer global players. Many players outside the US are subsidized by their governments.

I don't know enough about the subsidies provided by these governments to evaluate the accuracy of this claim. Pool has no chance at the Olympics until 2036 (or there abouts) and pool was an afterthought at the World Games, so I can't imagine these events are driving budgets anywhere.

 

[Dimeball]

I love this!!!! I also think its hilarious how many are on board with this seeing that it wasn't too long ago every single "poster" on this forum were cocked 24/7 at the ready anytime a tourney came up that wasn't WPA sanctioned to point that out,,, ah ah aahhh doesn't count... BS.
Now that WPA doesn't matter, wonder many WC's Earl has... LOLOLOLOLOL!!!
HE HE HE sorry couldn't resist.
Bet Shaw would know...ha

 

[Cameron Smith]

I guess it just isn't getting through to some people.

The WPA rankings are ALL disciplines of pool.

Matchroom's rankings are 9 ball ONLY. They wanted the WPA to recognise their 9 ball rankings as the official 9 ball rankings.

The WPA has NO 9 ball only rankings.

In any case I like Barry Hearns comment "...it means that our events will continue without their sanction because we’re going to outgrow the world that they live in."



So you don't want the players to make big money because they won't then play in smaller events?

I wonder how many players would put their hand up and say this is a good idea?

I’m confused, I’m not sure if you misunderstood what I wrote and agree with me or not.

In short I’m saying about the rankings,

• There needs to be a central ranking system, not many.
• Matchroom can’t use the WPA ranking because there are multiple disciplines and promoters contributing.
• So they cut ties because the WPA wont contribute to their centralized vision of the sport.

I understand that choice because ultimately what do the WPA provide Matchroom? As near as I can tell, they just collect the money and provide their stamp of approval.

With respect to the competing tours, I’m saying that you can’t complain about overlap or bulldozing because that is inevitable. Growing tours will clash and if one gets much more successful, it will in effect to turn the other tours into minor pro tours. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it would be great if snooker had a viable minor pro tour as a stepping stone to the WST.

 

[garczar]

Picture these two different scenarios: One, Matchroom is gone, kaput. Two, WPA is toast, history. As far as professional pool goes which would you prefer? For me and i would assume most pro its a no-brainer.

 

[9ballhasbeen]

Picture these two different scenarios: One, Matchroom is gone, kaput. Two, WPA is toast, history. As far as professional pool goes which would you prefer? For me and i would assume most pro its a no-brainer.

Exactly... and let's not forget to give the BCA it's fair share of credit for being a complete waste either. The incompetence of Shane Tyree, representing both the BCA and WPA at the World Games in Birmingham immediately comes to mind. They can't even properly manage their own rankings; BCA Rankings, let alone do anything in a timely, professional and impartial way.

From the States looking across the pond, the EPBF does far more, and is far more effective than our BCA. America is the largest market for "American Pocket Billiards," and the players and fans in this country need competent representation and leadership at the National level. I'm personally far more interested and concerned with getting the game properly promoted, regulated and supported here at home. I have no interest in supporting the do-nothing WPA. Just look at their board, it's filled with people that bring no value, or expertise to pool. A South African Sporting Director, and a Australian President, these guys are real experts for growing and regulating the game...

The BCA and WPA deserve to be retired from service.

 

[skip100]

Exactly... and let's not forget to give the BCA it's fair share of credit for being a complete waste either. The incompetence of Shane Tyree, representing both the BCA and WPA at the World Games in Birmingham immediately comes to mind. They can't even properly manage their own rankings; BCA Rankings, let alone do anything in a timely, professional and impartial way.

Wow, what a complete joke that they haven't updated their rankings since February.

"To see a complete list of the top 300+ Billiard Congress of America Ranking leaders please email - shane@bca-pool.com."

LOL I'll get right on that.

 

[skip100]

This BCA ranking thing is so dumb. Aside from the fact that the rankings haven't been updated in a year, why don't they just post the entire list? It's not like it costs them money.

 

[Grimper]

As an aside, I was told by a Washington, D.C., pool aficionado many years ago that ESPN came to the Capital City Classic in Maryland to film for a segment. Nick Varner was playing one-pocket, and I can't remember who his opponent was. During the middle of the match, the camera crew packed up and left, stating words to the effect that this kind of video footage is just not exciting enough for TV. And they left. The footage never made the air.

I love watching pool....but watching one-pocket is much like watching paint dry. Slowly

 

[mista335]

I love watching pool....but watching one-pocket is much like watching paint dry. Slowly

At least with paint drying there is a sense of accomplishment at the end.

With one pocket it's just time you'll never get back again.