Math & pool

[Cornerman]

I need to know your opinions. Does one have to be good in math and physics to be a top level player?

No. One has to be good at playing pool to be a top level player.

The reason I ask is I see all these articles on kicking and different things that have formulas to figure out. The amature physics for the amature player article starts of with all these formulas.

The discussion of physics is for entertainment value. If some people can apply the physics, then the entertainment value dramatically increases. But, no, the physics or the understanding of the physics in of itself doesn't do squat.

That being said, for some people, a simple understanding of certain physics principles may be a helpful key for them to get over a certain understanding of a shot, or expand their understanding of a shot.

E.g.:

How speed really affects the bank angle (most great teachers have this wrong)

How to shoot with firm inside english.

Fred

 

[Andrew Manning]

No. One has to be good at playing pool to be a top level player.

The discussion of physics is for entertainment value. If some people can apply the physics, then the entertainment value dramatically increases. But, no, the physics or the understanding of the physics in of itself doesn't do squat.

That being said, for some people, a simple understanding of certain physics principles may be a helpful key for them to get over a certain understanding of a shot, or expand their understanding of a shot.

E.g.:

How speed really affects the bank angle (most great teachers have this wrong)

How to shoot with firm inside english.

Fred

There's a distinction to be made between scientific understanding of pool and systemization of pool. I dislike systems because for me, even if I use a system to figure out a shot, my muscles and eyes don't know that system, and they're the ones doing the perceiving and shooting, and I firmly believe they override conscious aiming and alignment.

Scientific understanding of pool physics, though, I think is valuable for everyone. Knowing the physical relationships between variables in how you play a shot + position route is the only way to really be good at shotmaking and position. Whether you know the principles in an articulate scientific manner or more of a vague intuitive manner is probably a matter of personal brain-type, but you have to know them on some level. You can't memorize what to do to get any given position route from any given shot. You have to be able to synthesize with your mind a combination of aim, english, stroke, and speed that will achieve the desired results. If it's a shot you haven't practiced much, you have to have a very in-depth understanding of how the variables interact to be able to combine them in such a way as to make it happen.

All the banking practice in the world won't get you far until you find out how speed compresses the rail, and how this introduces a frictional force that impedes the component parallel to the rail of the ball's velocity, and how spin induced in the OB at contact with the CB affects the angle coming out of the rail. You'll be sitting there scratching your head wondering why you're aiming at the same spot and getting different bank angles.

-Andrew

 

[jsp]

...All the banking practice in the world won't get you far until you find out how speed compresses the rail, and how this introduces a frictional force that impedes the component parallel to the rail of the ball's velocity, and how spin induced in the OB at contact with the CB affects the angle coming out of the rail. You'll be sitting there scratching your head wondering why you're aiming at the same spot and getting different bank angles.

I disagree somewhat, IMO. You don't need to know why speed on a bank shot shortens the bank angle...all you need to know is that it does. The harder you hit your shot, the shallower the bank angle. That's all that is necessary, and an explanation of why that happens is irrelevant when shooting your bank shot.

Pool is all about cause and effect. For each cause, you need to know it's effect. Likewise for each effect that you want, you need to know what can cause it. The reasons why a cause results in a particular effect is not necessary when executing a shot. I doubt that half of the professionals out there can give an explanation or geometrical proof as to why the OB and CB depart at 90 degrees if you stun the CB. They just know that they do depart at right angles, and that's good enough for them.

I do think that the knowledge of physics can help you learn the game at faster pace, such that you can reason out the effect for a given cause with which you are unfamiliar. Experience, intuition, and memory can supplement ignorance of physics.

 

[Jal]

I will tell you what started me thinking of this. I was looking at some information about kicking. In this particular situation the person was talking about kicking from corner to side pocket. easy enough. But he then said that your tip position to the side to get natural roll effects off the rail was 2/5 the distance from cue ball to rail. Does it all have to be so difficult to figure?

Here is a pictorial version of Ron Shepard's explanation of this:

The red line is drawn perpendicular to the cushion and the green line perpendicular to the blue line (the ball's direction).

This is for a stun shot where there is no topspin or bottom spin on the cueball when it arrives at the cushion. If hitting much below center, the 2/5 distance should be less because of the slowing of the cueball on the way to the cushion.

However, this will not get you angle out = angle in because the cushion slows the cueball down in the direction perpendicular to the cushion. For this you need to make tip contact at about 1/5 the length of line a, I believe.

Jim

 

[Gerry]

Personally, I've been a "feel" player all my life, and it has served me well to this point. NOW, that I have a table at home, I've been spending hours learning different diamond systems for 2/3/4/5 rail banks, kicks, billiards and the like. I only wish I had done this 15 years ago, I"d be a MUCH stronger player today. I guess it's not physics, but you do have to work out easy calculations in your head, and the more I practice it, the faster it all happens. I did this purely to strengthen my 1 pocket game with better banking and kicking, and it has.

Gerry

 

[telkwa]

No No and No.

I have a degree in Math and was the top student in all of my 3rd & 4th year University Math classes. Ability in math is not at all a pre-requisite for top-level pool. It can help, but isn't necessary.

 

[Cameron Smith]

This kind of reminds me of a debate between musicians "do you need theory to be a good musician or guitarist, violinist etc."

I think both of these debates have very similar aspects to it, and a similar answer as well. Yes you need theory to become a classical musician but for many other styles I would say no. Furthermore you do not need it to become very good at playing your chosen instrument. Trust me.

Theory gives you a general understanding of how music is put together and how everything is composed. A rudimentary knowledge will help you compose music, especially knoweldge of keys. But in general alot of musical theory is an intellectual pursuit that only matters to other intellectuals.

A basic knowledge of composing music is like knowing the diamond system. Its very helpful, but not neccessary.

I guess my point is that, as someone else mentioned earlier, all you need is a knowledge of cause and effect. And that just boils down to a knowledge of how the balls react to different spins.