Measure of Skill

[Loun]

Originally Posted by Loun
You measure skill by consistancy and how someone plays when they are on. -Lou

again.....i whole heartedly disagree with you.

ever heard the saying that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link???

honestly, someone's skill needs to be done with an average. you would not have to worry about sandbagging, because there is NO incentive for a pro player to lose in a tournament for the most part.

VAP

Its nice to see that you only see what you want to see. Further in the post I write "I personally think skill should be measured by consistancy like a batting average in baseball BUT then you can get into sandbagging..." A batting average is an average which is what you are saying you should have. I mention consitancy because I think there should be something thrown in for that because a pool player that can remain consistant in my mind is a better player. He doesnt have as many of those "bad games". As far as pros not sandbagging... if theres a tourney or two that pay very little in comparison to another or if you start ranking any game the guy plays... im sure human nature will take over with someone and they will start losing those games as an investment waiting for a larger payoff to become easier. But im happy to disagree when it comes to teh sandbagging part.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Its nice to see that you only see what you want to see. .

and what i see is someone with 67 posts so far......and the "advice" you have passed on has been wrong pretty much for the most part.

VAP

 

[Loun]

and what i see is someone with 67 posts so far......and the "advice" you have passed on has been wrong pretty much for the most part.

VAP

wow another great piece of advice actually. I will now look at everyones post counts and factor that in to some sort of modified accu-stats type setup to then calculate out a weight that I will give to everyones advice and then from there I can try to figure out whos advice thus should be more truth.

I have 67 posts partly because unlike some I dont like to hear myself talk (or to be more technically correct, see myself in print)

And as far as any advice I give, it should carry some weight as in each post where I give advice I am honest and truthful and let the person looking for advice know that I am still new and that all im giving is my opinion. Again in my opinion 1 person isnt usually 100% correct but if you "average" out the advice and then see what works for you you have a much better chance and gettnig it right. But again im new so until i have a 1400 post count I guess im wrong.

Lastly, the last time I looked "Do you think" is a question about ones opinion, whether you feel its right or wrong I gave mine.

However, in a league situation your handicap should be based on your best play.

Although he only has 700 posts so his opinion is only worth half yours, he too has a similar opinion to mine...

I merely commented on you saying you "wholeheartedly disagreed with me" and then come back to say something similar to what i say in my next sentence as your (the right) opinion. There was no need to make it "personal" when you could have merely given your opinion like everyone else. btw im done with this post so no need to clutter it up with more replies to me in here.

-Lou

 

[drivermaker]

btw im done with this post so no need to clutter it up with more replies to me in here.

-Lou

Hey, hey....what kind of quitters attitude is that right when it's getting good?
This can't end until someone really gets their ass kicked one way or another.
Look...think of it like this...what better way is there to get your post count up higher than hell real quick than through a flame war.

Drivermaker (a leader in all stat categories...post count, flame wars, helpful posts, shooting technique posts, thought provoking posts, pot-stirring posts, and sundry pissing contest posts)

 

[SonjaBlue03]

Drivermaker (a leader in all stat categories...post count, flame wars, helpful posts, shooting technique posts, thought provoking posts, pot-stirring posts, and sundry pissing contest posts)

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Drivermaker (a leader in all stat categories...post count, flame wars, helpful posts, shooting technique posts, thought provoking posts, pot-stirring posts, and sundry pissing contest posts)[/QUOTE]

all of that is certainly something to be proud of. certainly the reason these forums were started in the first place.

 

[drivermaker]

You are only as good as your last performance.....So you better make your next one something to remember.....

I try man...I try. But just like Tiger...some days it's there, and some days it's not. And every once in a great while you just miss the cut.

 

[drivermaker]

I have not been paying attention...Did Tiger FINALLY miss a cut???

Yep! Ironically at the Byron Nelson, the man with the 2nd longest cut record in history. Tiger stopped at 142.

 

[CaptainJR]

wow another great piece of advice actually. I will now look at everyones post counts and factor that in to some sort of modified accu-stats type setup to then calculate out a weight that I will give to everyones advice and then from there I can try to figure out whos advice thus should be more truth.

I have 67 posts partly because unlike some I dont like to hear myself talk (or to be more technically correct, see myself in print)

And as far as any advice I give, it should carry some weight as in each post where I give advice I am honest and truthful and let the person looking for advice know that I am still new and that all im giving is my opinion. Again in my opinion 1 person isnt usually 100% correct but if you "average" out the advice and then see what works for you you have a much better chance and gettnig it right. But again im new so until i have a 1400 post count I guess im wrong.

Lastly, the last time I looked "Do you think" is a question about ones opinion, whether you feel its right or wrong I gave mine.



Although he only has 700 posts so his opinion is only worth half yours, he too has a similar opinion to mine...

I merely commented on you saying you "wholeheartedly disagreed with me" and then come back to say something similar to what i say in my next sentence as your (the right) opinion. There was no need to make it "personal" when you could have merely given your opinion like everyone else. btw im done with this post so no need to clutter it up with more replies to me in here.

-Lou

Lou, I was a little off the subject there with the league thing that you quoted. You must go by the best scores in league play to help eliminate at least some of the sandbagging.

What they were talking about here is how to judge how good a player you are and if you keep an honest handicap that will tell fairly accurately how you play. However, if you read the first part of my post you'll find me agreeing with VAP on this. You can't judge a persons play by the way they play when they are playing the best they can. Mainly because most of us only do that once in a while. I sure wish I did it more often, but what I understand is that the older I get the less that is going to happen.

 

[vapoolplayer]

wow another great piece of advice actually. I will now look at everyones post counts and factor that in to some sort of modified accu-stats type setup to then calculate out a weight that I will give to everyones advice and then from there I can try to figure out whos advice thus should be more truth.


-Lou

ok......since you didn't see the point of my statement i will spell it out for you.

its one thing to have 700 posts and be wrong sometimes........but when you have less than a 100 and you're wrong MOST of the time.......you might want to stop giving advice and start taking.

case in point, you told someone earlier that the line from the ball to the pocket was the aim point. you didn't mention how you were aiming(i don't think you really know). that is a HUGE factor, as MOST ways of aiming, that is the CONTACT point.


hmmm, seems you're a beginner in using your wits as well as your pool game........

VAP

 

[vapoolplayer]

Hey, hey....what kind of quitters attitude is that right when it's getting good?

(singing) another one bites the dust...........

VAP

 

[OldHasBeen]

Show Me Someone Who...........

Show Me Someone Who Matches Up (for serious Ca$h) according to the best game they have ever played. P L E A S E ???

TY & GL

 

[vapoolplayer]

Show Me Someone Who Matches Up (for serious Ca$h) according to the best game they have ever played. P L E A S E ???

TY & GL

thats what i've been trying to get across.......i think i've said it a few times.

most people don't even match up with their average speed.

i know when i match up, i always think about how the game would go if i played bad........

thanks

VAP

 

[Loun]

Hey, hey....what kind of quitters attitude is that right when it's getting good?
This can't end until someone really gets their ass kicked one way or another.

Its an attitude of, theres no way we are going to agree on this and my time is more valuble that sitting here going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. I have made my point and that is enough for me.

but when you have less than a 100 and you're wrong MOST of the time.......you might want to stop giving advice and start taking.

case in point, you told someone earlier that the line from the ball to the pocket was the aim point. you didn't mention how you were aiming(i don't think you really know). that is a HUGE factor, as MOST ways of aiming, that is the CONTACT point.

(singing) another one bites the dust...........

First off if someone is supposed to be wrong when they are new then thats fine i say guilty. Secondly I disagree with you as to how wrong I have been but then again you definitely have an opinion on everything as well which is fine, but my problem is you arent giving advice or opinions... you are merely just cutting down me for giving mine and that is wrong. And again in reply to you saying I was wrong with teh contact/aim point discussion... yet you come right back and say that MOST ways of aiming it would be the contact point but in some id be right... so therefore im not wrong. Id also extend that to suggest, that while he said where do I aim in his thread... I honestly think he is asking where to hit the ball.

(singing) A SS HO LE.............

-Lou

 

[Snapshot9]

playing pool ...

There are a lot of great players out there, but a lot will make logic mistakes in certain situations, and the better player will count on that when they are playing. That might even be a factor in figuring a spot. For example, when I play a totally offenseive player, one that does not play defense, I figure my
defense at times is going to win me games in a set, and I am usually right.

Great shotmakers are fun to watch, but if they have other weaknesses they have not overcome, they are not going to win against the tried and true always play good player. Everyone has a playing range, some guys play like a 5 on some days, and a 9 on others. Other guys play like a 7 on a bad day and
a 9 on a good day, but the latter is the one I would sidebet on because
the average play is a higher average than the first group. For example, Allen Hopkins is a great shotmaker, but could not maintain the high level of play necessary to be a consistent winner in big tournaments. Mike Sigel, on the other hand, won more tournaments throughout the 80's than anyone else.
He was always tough. His average play was higher than Allen Hopkins.
Some guys consider a bad day is when they miss 2 shots after playing
all day. It's all about consistency, and being able to maintain a high level of
average play whether your break is working or not, whether your girlfriend
just left you or not. Professionals work through those problems most of
the time, amateurs do not. That's what being a pro is all about, being
able to overcome whatever problems might be happening to still win.
Why do amateurs insist on using the same break over and over and over
when they are only making a ball on the break about 25-30% percent of the time, or even if they do, they usually don't have a good table layout? That
is a weakness, and instead of trying to cure it, they just keep using the
same ole break with the same ole results. If your opponent is a real good kicker, and you are not, that is a weakness. If he can jump balls, and you
can not, that is a weakness. You have to be well versed in every aspect
of the sport, not just one or two, or you are just a ball banger.

Playing Pool is about consistency. The higher your game goes, the more you realize that. It's always about you maintaining 'an advantage' in the game either by your shots, your defense, or your opponents weaknesses in the game.

Sad, but true, is that most players when they match up, evaluate by their best game against their opponent instead of their average game. That is
a mistake, and helps make their opponents wealthier. I have run 11 racks
of 9 ball on a bar box in a row, but am I going to say to myself, I don't have to worry about the set because I am capable of running 11 racks...hell, no
I am going to think about how I usually play, and not my 'hail mary'
capabilities. Yeah, an 11 pack is nice, but I don't depend on it, I depend
on my normal playing speed, and I depend on being a little smarter than my opponent. I have played 43 years (I am 57), and I started out playing for money, never shot any 5 figure sets, but I have shot plenty of 4 figure
sets, and everywhere inbetween.

 

[vapoolplayer]

Its an attitude of, theres no way we are going to agree on this and my time is more valuble that sitting here going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. Lou

get used to it.......thats all woofing is, if you can't handle it on an online forum..........you're doomed.

VAP

 

[Loun]

get used to it.......thats all woofing is, if you can't handle it on an online forum..........you're doomed.

VAP

Nah, in real life id just ignore you, because people know who I am. But since im still new here I actually care what people think of or about me still, so I feel the need to defend myself. Your tactics annoy me but in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter to me.

-Lou

 

[vapoolplayer]

Nah, in real life id just ignore you, because people know who I am. But since im still new here I actually care what people think of or about me still, so I feel the need to defend myself.

-Lou

best way to do that is..........give good advice........don't give "i'm a beginner, so this is how i do it" advice..........the way you do things now is going to be completely different in a year.

VAP

 

[DaveK]

Well, a player's average game defines them best. Having said that, though, I think how a player plays when they are playing their worst game gives a far greater hint of their quality as a player than how high their best game is. I believe that it is in the area of decision making where some players manage to excel in each and every session. Knowledge, composure, and playing discipline are the key ingredients of good decision making, and those (and there sure aren't many of them) having these qualities, in my opinion, manage to keep their worst game at a level that still ives them a chance to succeed.

Many have talked around this point, but in statistics terms what might be the best measure is the matched pairs of 'average' and it's buddy 'standard deviation'. The 'average' gives you some number that is, well, an average (something like "my average straight pool inning is 33 points"). The 'standard deviation' is how far away from the average you might be on any given instance, 95 times out of 100 (something like 'almost all of my straight pool innings are within 23 points of my average'). So, what you want is a high average (play good) and a low standard deviation (play very consistantly).

For the record, I hated statistics, but they are damned handy sometimes.

Dave

PS Did you hear about the job interview ?
Interviewer : Mr Engineer, what is 2 plus 2 ?
Mr Engineer : 2 plus 2 is 4.0 !
Interviewer : Mr Architect, what is 2 plus 2 ?
Mr Architect : 2 plus 2 is somewhere between 3 and 5
Interviewer : Mr Economist, what is 2 plus 2 ?
Mr Economist : What would you like it to be ?

 

[Rackin_Zack]

And again in reply to you saying I was wrong with teh contact/aim point discussion... yet you come right back and say that MOST ways of aiming it would be the contact point but in some id be right... so therefore im not wrong. Id also extend that to suggest, that while he said where do I aim in his thread... I honestly think he is asking where to hit the ball.

(singing) A SS HO LE.............

-Lou

Just thought I'd point out that the aiming point and the contact point are rarely the same unless you're aiming with the edge of the ball. That being said, if you omitted what aiming method you were using you were indeed wrong. There's no partial credit here...lol.

BTW, that's a great song...lol.

You know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna get myself a 1967 Cadilac El Dorado Convertable
Hot pink!
With whale skin hub caps
An all leather cow interior
And big brown baby seal eyes for headlights
YEAH!
And I'm gonna drive around in that baby
At 115 miles per hour
Getting one mile per gallon
Sucking down Quarter Pounder cheeseburgers from McDonalds in the old-fashioned non-biodegradable Styrofoam containers
And when I'm done sucking down those grease-ball burgers
I'm gonna wipe my mouth with the American flag
And then I'm gonna toss the Styrofoam containers right out the side
And there ain't a Goddamn thing anybody can do about it
You know why?
'Cause we got the bombs, that's why!
Two words: Nuclear Fuckin' Weapons
Okay!?
Russia, Germany, Romania
They can have all the Democracy they want
They can have a big Democracy cake walk
Right through the middle of Tienemen Square
And it won't make a lick of difference
Because we got the bombs
Okay!?
John Wayne's not dead
He's frozen!
And as soon as we find a cure for cancer We're gonna thaw out "The Duke"
And he's gonna be pretty pissed off
You know why?
Have you ever taken a cold shower?
Well, multiply that by 15 million times
That's how pissed off "The Duke"'s gonna be
I'm gonna get "The Duke"
And John Cassavetes
And Lee Marvin
And Sam Peckinpah
And a case of whiskey
And drive down to Texas
And-
(Hey, Hey! You know you really are an asshole)
Why don't you just shut-up and sing the song, pal?
You know, the whole time I thought I was that asshole
And it turns out it was him
What an asshole!