Never said anything about cost. Metal framed tables are cheaper to build no doubt but play no better. At all. I've played the early KSteels and hit balls on a Rasson in a showroom. Both tables were fine but don't try to blow smoke up people's asses trying to say metal is better for making tables. Its cheaper is the main reason. I like the Timberstrand beams that Diamond use on the Professional. That stuff is incredibly strong and uses leftover/throwaway pieces of wood in a epoxy matrix. Weather/humidity has no effect on it. Hell, they build housed using this stuff for beams and trusses.
Metal Frame tables
- Thread starter NYC
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What 'movement' are you talking about? How would you propose measuring it? Point is the mass of the unit keeps it from moving. IF there is any it is in TINY increments, something neither you, me or anyone would ever notice. You have this idea in your head that the table moves enough to change how it plays. Weather/humidity IS a factor in how the cloth and the cushions play but not on the table itself.
I must have drew the short straw when I bought my GCI then, even though its on a concrete floor I have had to relevel it a few times. same with my house, between summer and winter my doors fit different and I can assure you that the house weighs a heck of a lot more than my pool table. On the other hand my completely steel welding table that is level now will be level any time of year this year and for many years to come. A little side note, did you know that when cue makers make cues they let the wood acclimate before and during machining? Someone installing a wood floor might also let the new floor material acclimate for a few days to a few weeks in the house it will be installed in. I have been building drag race chassis' for a few decades now and I have never let a piece of 4130 chrome moly steel tubing acclimate before installing it in a race car. Go figure.
No, but i did. Both sides of the equation, cheaper or more costly.
My premise is that they could easily play as well, and have fewer stability issues with proper design
See this is where you keep going off the rails, talking about how tables have been designed in the past.
Well i've certainly built a lot of houses!
I've mentioned my intro to pool table builds: in the late 70's/early 80's a builder sought me out because he heard i could make anything in wood.
That's literally what he said, but of course it is not true, wood is a big field. Anyway, until he died, i made wooden parts, and machined tools, tooling, and machines for him to use as he juggled aspects of BBC builds on tables he restored, maintenance tools for him to use in the field - he maintained tables across about 5 states, and for his own custom table builds in various styles. I have also posted that i regret that i never paid attention to any of it, except to come up with whatever John told me he needed or problem to solve. He installed bars, too, so i came up with some fancy over-bar mouldings; and some for the armrest on a bar, more or less according to what he described imagining. I thought John would always be there to ask, and i certainly miss him.
It's an aside, but after John took me to the slate mines one time to get several sets of slate for his builds, & i watched them saw it, plane it, & hone it, and cut & float the pockets to John's choice from patterns on the wall, by hand; i kept buying architectural slate from them over the years. Just tried calling them yesterday, and it seems they are finally gone.
Steel - I use it for structural parts in buildings, sometimes balancing vs wood, sometimes a matrix of both, sometimes wood is better.
I use steel, cast iron, and aluminum to build machines, machining accessories, and tooling. It is familiar to me. Like fastone, even a little bit of chrome moly for airplane fuselage.
Per cost - my vision of a steel table would not likely be cheaper than compost type wood, and i have too many other projects that i work on every day, to make a table just to prove a point. But i can imagine a number of improvements that would make it superior for set up and for stability; and it could probably be cost effective in volume. One way it has been done for machine tools was to include polymer concrete in the hollow members for damping.
That's it for me, though - if you want to keep spinning the intention of what you wished i said, go for it. Saying anymore only gives you more words, as opposed to useful consideration of the options in either direction. BTW, what physical things do you build professionally, it will help me understand where you are coming from. I certainly don't have a problem with wood. I think steel, good design, and modern systems can be as good and potentially better. Even a steel primary support/framed table (a "good" one) will probably include some wood for damping, & primarily wooden rails, in my imagining of it.
smt
PS - you no doubt know that cast iron tables; and cast iron supported tables, were made during the 19th c and were generally superior. They were more expensive and took more effort to move. Some in England were entirely CI. Some in America were CI pedestal and support of varying detail such as the BBC Monarch. I think the Monarch did have wood above the base for bedding the slate?
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Don't confuse 'settling' with weather related moving. Been around GC's for yrs and they all settle in after a month or so. After that you don't need to touch it. I've seen GC's that once leveled stayed that way for years if not decades. I'm not saying metal is a poor choice for pool tables, what i am saying is that its use/implementation has not been all that great. KSteel were supposed to be the nxt big thing. Problem? They suck and most mechanics won't touch one. These Rasson aluminum deals don't look a whole lot better. Their leveling adjusters really look flimsy. If Rasson and SAM are the current choices i'd have to pass. Neither is all that great. Can't wait for the GC7 that Mark Gregory is helping B'wick with. Maybe it will have a frame made from some exotic 'unobtanium-alloy'.
Are the new 7' Gold Crown coin op tables metal framed?
“We learned a little something on the first three test units and adjusted the nose height to ensure quality and consistent play on those tables,” he said. “Also, we started with two steel crossbeams in the table but decided to go with four because on the next generation table, we’re working towards a better slate leveling system. There are just so many under-the-hood things I could talk about but it’s really all about the Brunswick brand making a reentry into the coin-op space and doing it right.”
“We learned a little something on the first three test units and adjusted the nose height to ensure quality and consistent play on those tables,” he said. “Also, we started with two steel crossbeams in the table but decided to go with four because on the next generation table, we’re working towards a better slate leveling system. There are just so many under-the-hood things I could talk about but it’s really all about the Brunswick brand making a reentry into the coin-op space and doing it right.”
GC bartables are made by Global. From what i hear its a basic Valley-style barbox with a extra cross-member under the slate. Valley has new model, the ProCat, that has same kind of upgrades. The main box is plywood. Pic off FB:https://www.facebook.com/globalbill...25786999.-2207520000/1227792060585278/?type=3 Wood box, wood rails with metal crossmembers. standard bb const.Are the new 7' Gold Crown coin op tables metal framed?
“We learned a little something on the first three test units and adjusted the nose height to ensure quality and consistent play on those tables,” he said. “Also, we started with two steel crossbeams in the table but decided to go with four because on the next generation table, we’re working towards a better slate leveling system. There are just so many under-the-hood things I could talk about but it’s really all about the Brunswick brand making a reentry into the coin-op space and doing it right.”
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I was looking at the Global Facebook page and the GC 7 coin up looks to me to have taller metal legs of a different design then the Global box. Along with what looks like metal skirting being used as support between the metal legs? The GC metal legs look to extend all of the way to the slate framing?
Can't be any worse than the recycled air hockey tables another company slapped their name on.
It has been a very long time since I seen a bar box taken apart, so that is the reason for my questions. Easy to see the reason why a bar box would go to a metal exterior frame, so it can take even more abuse then the old plywood models.
Makes stacking the boxes easier for storage purposes after big national tournaments? Maybe the new Brunswick offering can have it's legs, skirting taken off making them easier to stack? Having a fork lift transport system incorporated into the framing of the table, so an access plate can be removed allowing the forklift to pickup the table so the legs and skirting can be removed. Then the rest of the table can be slid into it's storage transport space, that is fabricated in a way that allows forklift to maneuver the final stacked tables product around easily. Trying to stack tables directly on top of each other for transport and storage logistics will cause a lot of problems I'm guessing.
Legs come off the main box. Very simple. No need for a metal box. And yes you are guessing a lot. The thick plywood boxes used by Valley, D'mond, Global work fine. All bar table legs come off to ease shipping. The Diamond ProAm is basically a barbox on steroids, thick plywood box with detachable legs. Very easy to ship, set-up.
Thanks for the video plus accurate description of a thick plywood box and detachable legs.
I agree. Like a Gabriel.
Pretty sure Rasson's have wood rails too.