What makes Meucci shafts draw the cue ball so easily vs other shafts or cues ??? JUST CURIOUS >>> thanks
Meucci Cues or Meucci Shafts ???
- Thread starter SHORTY WRIGHT
- Start date
The old Meucci shafts- at least from 1997 backwards- the shafts with no dots at all on them just had more flex in the shaft itself - so as you stroked forward and down on the cue ball the shaft passed through the bottom of the cue ball a bit easier and thus created a bit more backspin on the cue ball with a bit less effort or with a stroke that was not so perfect. I cannot speak for any Meucci shafts made after 1997.
Using the lighter measles ball, instead of a real cue ball.
The shaft I used was a black dot ... not sure of what year it was ...
Old-wives tale imo. I've heard this for years and never agreed with it. I owned 3-4 of the Originals and never got more draw than with other cues. A shafts flexibility doesn't make drawing easier. Greater tip offset and a pure stroke is how you get more draw.
Yeah. I played with Meucci‘s for years. Long before dot shafts. I also put a Predator 314 shaft on one. I’ve never noticed any significant difference between one or the other on the Meucci butt, nor from the Meucci to any other type of cue.
As is most often the case, it’s the Indian, not the arrow.
I have played with Meucci’s from late 80’s up to current year and have owned probably 100 different models from for the time I started playing to now. I quit playing for about 15 years or so. But I have played with Meucci’s enough to know that it is not all the Cue. Like it was said more the Indian than the Arrow. Some seem to play better, I prefer the red dot shaft which started in the early 90’s. I hate the Black dot , laminated shaft , shaft size and tip seems to make more difference to me. My Son has the Ultimate Weapon Pro shaft that is 11.75 with a Kamui Medium black tip. It draws the Cue ball really well. It seems to take English really well. Meucci was really popular among our area for Many years back then. You just have to find one and try it. In the last 20 years there Qualify control can be hit or miss. Customer service sucks to.
Well, we can agree to disagree in some respects on this- I agree completely with you that pure stroke is the secret to the best draw- no question about that in my mind either. Where I do not agree somewhat is on the question of shaft flex and how a higher degree of shaft flex CAN compensate- somewhat- not a lot- but somewhat for a stroke that is not so pure- when it comes to a draw stroke.
I am talking about a stroke that at least gets the tip to the cloth- let's just talk plain jane maple shafts here- not LD or any other marketing named shafts- my own experience is that stiffer maple shafts- those with so called Europen tapers - like you find on many Gilbert's, Capone's, and other cues - play very differently than the pre 97 Meucci shafts. I am not saying better or worse- but my experience is they play differently- HOW?
IMO a 12 to 16 inch straight pro taper at 13MM or less at the tip is generally a shaft with a good amount of flex. I contend that once your cue tip hits that cloth on a draw stroke- the more flexible shaft just naturally will bend a bit more under the cue ball resulting in slightly more backspin.
Most pre 97 Meucci cues that I have handled- many- have a long pro tapered shaft- again, a good pure stroke should show NO difference in draw, regardless of pro taper or a bit stiffer European tapered shaft- agree with you there. But for most amateurs, who really don't get that shaft tip way under the cueball and into the cloth enough, those folks may have experienced this so-called Meucci shaft magic draw ability- so yes it is an old wives tale in some respects; but perhaps rooted in some success without pure excellent stroking ability.
Tip contact is in milliseconds. Dr. Dave's tests/studies show that because of this almost all bending takes place well after ball is gone. What little shaft bending that occurs doesn't increase the amount of draw you can get. I've had cues WAAY stiffer than a Meucci that i could get just as much draw with.
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OK- I give up! I was just talking about an experience that I apparently share with many, many pool players going back to the 1970s, 80s and 90s- so if that's how the old wives tale about meucci cues began, from many folks' experience- they were all wrong - your science just proved it!
I won't be labor the point any longer - not trying to win or lose here, just sharing experience with the Meucci cue- that's, I think, what was originally requested. Logic tells me different from your science, flex vs. non flex as you bend under an object- but I just will leave it to sharing my experience with older meucci cues in general as shared by thousands of others and we can let your science do all the talking for all of us.
I won't be labor the point any longer - not trying to win or lose here, just sharing experience with the Meucci cue- that's, I think, what was originally requested. Logic tells me different from your science, flex vs. non flex as you bend under an object- but I just will leave it to sharing my experience with older meucci cues in general as shared by thousands of others and we can let your science do all the talking for all of us.
I've owned the old Originals. They don't draw the ball any more. I'm going with science here. Ball is gone way before shaft flexes. That's been seen on hi-speed video. So HOW does flex that happens after cueball is gone increase draw? Billiard cues are SUPER stiff. Where do they get all that spin? Tip offset and quality strike is how.
I played with several of their cues, did not notice anything special about them past a lot of flex in many of the stock shafts in the 80s and 90s. Maybe it's the lighter ball set that even some pro events used back in the day. I have seen a lot of major events that used what clearly were cheap recreational level balls, and those would make a C player think they were a pro with cueball action.
Fun fact, a buddy bought a set of the top of the line Aramith Tournament balls, we often played some money partners games with a regular group of players. When we brought them to use at the pool hall no-one would gamble with us using those since you needed to actually have a stroke to get action from the balls. You would think a new high end ball set would make everyone happy, but nope, the lightness of the cheaper and older sets won over constancy and quality.
OK I will quote YOU and Dr. Dave : "ALMOST all bending takes place well after the cue ball is gone" And- that is my exact point- MOST players without the correct draw stroke- that we all agree a correct stroke should be the basis for anyone's game- not the cue itself- no argument here- but with most players that little bit of "AMOST all bending" that you and DR. Dave attest to and I also agree with you guys on that fact--
YES!- the little bit of extra flex in an older Meucci shaft for that small amount of extra time that we ALL agree does stay in contact with the cue ball- gave a lot of people more draw than they were experiencing with other cues- maybe not you and maybe not some other folks- that's fine- but for a lot of us out here- we did experience better draw with the old Meucci shafts- just bc that Meucci extra flex gave us a slight advantage when our strokes were not correct.
There is an ACCustats video of a Straight pool match from the late 80s early 90s with the pro level player Dick Lane from Texas commenting on his match. During his commentary, Dick Lane states that he uses a Meucci cue and he also states that he gets better draw with that cue- he felt it DID NOT PRODUCE FOLLOW AS WELL AS HIS OLD CUE, which I believe was a Szamboti, but he felt the Meucci was better at DRAW- He states that he purposely set up his cue ball on each full rack break ball at a more shallow draw angle off the stack due to his MEUCCI CUE-- IN the late 80s and early 90s it took a world class player to beat Dick Lane- I think he knew what he was talking about. He was not sponsored by Meucci.
Having owned one of the very first Meuccis (a one-off) I am in the camp that those cues did put more action on the ball and the scientists can go pound sand.
Having said that, was it shaft flex? Maybe. Was it that the shaft diameter was smaller than the majority of the cues of time? Maybe. Was it the taper or wood? Maybe.
My personal theory is that it was a combination of those factors, perhaps, and that the ferrule was very thin, of perhaps a kinda elastic material which just encased the outside edge of the shaft.
All of that and who knows whatever magic sauce Bob was using made those cues very “lively.”
Lou Figueroa
Having said that, was it shaft flex? Maybe. Was it that the shaft diameter was smaller than the majority of the cues of time? Maybe. Was it the taper or wood? Maybe.
My personal theory is that it was a combination of those factors, perhaps, and that the ferrule was very thin, of perhaps a kinda elastic material which just encased the outside edge of the shaft.
All of that and who knows whatever magic sauce Bob was using made those cues very “lively.”
Lou Figueroa
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
One also cannot forget the mental aspect of owning a premium cue. You could hand a ripe beginner a Meucci and if they knew it was a premium cue, the confidence boost and mental aspect could produce better results. I'm a cheapskate, but I'm a firm believer you will play better with a cue that you're almost scared of.
I recently refinished the hell out of my shaft, it's so smooth that I'm almost scared to use it and mess it up, I've found I'm playing better. You really can't underestimate the mental side and the "placebo" effect of using premium products. I no longer get a chuckle out of new players with high dollar equipment because there really is something to knowing you can trust your equipment to perform anything you can throw at it.
Think about if you MUST draw to get a shot and win the game. You're much more likely do draw good with a high dollar cue than a bar cue (even with a good tip) because you have faith and confidence in your equipment. This is also a reason why a cue maker can never let their quality slide. You might think this is bullshit, but if you're used to a $500 cue, I guarantee you're going to shoot the lights out if you're suddenly using a $3K cue. I wish I had the budget to test my theory lol.
I recently refinished the hell out of my shaft, it's so smooth that I'm almost scared to use it and mess it up, I've found I'm playing better. You really can't underestimate the mental side and the "placebo" effect of using premium products. I no longer get a chuckle out of new players with high dollar equipment because there really is something to knowing you can trust your equipment to perform anything you can throw at it.
Think about if you MUST draw to get a shot and win the game. You're much more likely do draw good with a high dollar cue than a bar cue (even with a good tip) because you have faith and confidence in your equipment. This is also a reason why a cue maker can never let their quality slide. You might think this is bullshit, but if you're used to a $500 cue, I guarantee you're going to shoot the lights out if you're suddenly using a $3K cue. I wish I had the budget to test my theory lol.
Meuccis did not all have flexible, whippy shafts as rumored. I have owned a Meucci Sneaky Pete since it was new in 1991. I never understood why I liked it because it was supposed to be so different than my other shafts which are relatively stiff. After retiring with too much time on my hands, I measured the specs on all my shafts and cue butts. As it turned out, the Meucci shaft is 13.1 mm where the ferrule meets the shaft, 13.5 mm at 6”, and remains at 13.5 mm through 12”. i have owned other Meuccis, but this is the one I kept.
Agree and well said. The pre dot meucci shafts which I call “whippy “ can make a cue ball dance even with a stroke that’s not so great.
Yak. Yak. Yak. How bout u and fauci try inserting some of that science in the #e3124#
