memikey said:
Can certainly believe the last paragraph
As regards the "perhaps,perhaps not" bit can certainly guarantee you there is and never has been any Uk "rule code" containing such a rule. Re it perhaps having been a "house rule" in 35 years of extensive travelling in pool circles I've seen a helluva lot of localised ones,some more wierd than others, but the very notion of anywhere in Uk having a "house rule" which allows your opponent to pot the eight half way through a game before potting all of his own colour group,simply because you have scratched in the previous shot is totally absurd and beggars belief.Not only have I never seen that but I've never heard any of the tens of thosands of Uk pool players that I've met ever mention having seen anything even remotely resembling such a house rule.
Then I suppose I ran into an instance you have not seen. I too thought it was strange-sounding myself but I just went along with it although I did briefly protest about it to one of the pub's pool playing customers when I first saw it. I never have claimed to be an authority or expert on English eight ball. I just remember how it was explained to me in the pub I played at while visiting my now-deceased older family relations.
When I was last there over a decade & a half ago, the only "pool" tables were the small coin-operated tables with the seven yellows, seven reds and the black eight ball numbered eight. Those were all over the place, even in London in the small back game rooms that were rather unclean. However, there was only one place that had the American-type stripes and solids. They took a deposit of a quid for a cue ball, which you got back when you returned it. Again, I thought it was odd but I went with it.
For what it's worth, I thought the skinnier, lighter & smaller snooker cues were weird too. I certainly got a lot of strange looks when I pulled out the bigger diameter & heavier pool cue I brought with me on the plane.
memikey said:
Are you sure that you are not confusing the situation you described with something similar? You mention "cue ball in hand" and "open table" and "two visits penalty" after scratching.In some very popular Uk rule codes you are given cue ball in hand after your opponent scratches and the table is indeed open for the first of your alloted "two successive visits".In those circumstances, for the first shot of the first of your two alloted visits every ball on the table becomes your ball,including all your opponents group balls and the black ball.You may hit and pot any of your opponents group.You may also contact the black ball first and play it in combination on to any other ball to pot any other ball........but you may not under any circumstances whatsoever pot the black ball until all of your own group balls are potted.
I never said anything about a two visit penalty. The only thing I remember when I played there was that the table was "open" if a scratch occurred and your opponent could choose whatever color group he wanted. A scratch while shooting the black did not result in a loss of game, just an open table yet again. Shots were all slop, even the black.
memikey said:
Frankly any game of eight ball in Uk,or in fact anywhere at all in the world,would obviously be completely farcical if it was played the way you described
I agree, but what could I do? I was merely a "Yank" visiting the "Brits" playing on what I perceived was their home ground & admittedly I was not familiar with the game rules as I had never seen balls like the ones that were being played with on the pub pool table.
In any case, that's how the game of English eight ball was introduced to me, so I just went with it. If it was a set-up to try to trap the "Yank", then so be it. If I decide to visit there again, I'll see about going back to the pub I played at.
As an aside, I also found it interesting from a cultural view how much anti-American sentiment that many of the British people have. America was called a "land of waste" & American citizens were very much frowned upon & criticized for just about everything from obesity, huge garbage dumps, terrible table manners, McDonald's restaurants & on & on.
