Mitred windows for dummies

[matta]

How exactly is this done? How do you get laminates mitred to exactly the right length? Is there some jig I should be using?

I've given this a shot and failed miserably. Some insight would be nice if you guys would be so kind.

 

[cuesmith]

veneered windows

How exactly is this done? How do you get laminates mitred to exactly the right length? Is there some jig I should be using?

I've given this a shot and failed miserably. Some insight would be nice if you guys would be so kind.

It's really not rocket science. I have an $800 Incra Jig Fence system which allows me to make extremely accurate cuts, but befoe I invested in that, I would cut some scrap the same thickness as the veneers. Then using a "sled" jig on the table saw that was 2 pieces of 1" thick hard particle board, sandwiched together with bolts and wing nuts to act as a clamp, then cut through, on the saw at a 45 deg angle, so the veneers are supported above and below the cut to avoid tear out. Using the scrap I'd first measure the length of the window opening. Cut the 45 on one side of the scrap, and an inch or so that you cut off to get the first side. I use the un tapered side of the wasted scrap as an adjustable stop to make the second cut for one side one side. Check it for the length of fit and if necessary make an adjustment and repeat until you have a perfect fit and without changing the stop, cut the opposite side, exactly the same as the first. Then do the same thing for the short side. OOPS Forgot to mention that you need to make the cuts on the real veneers on the long side, before moving the stop you had established as a good fit to do the short side tests with scrap. If your pockets are exactly the same size, you should cut enough for all the windows in groups of longs and shorts. It is complex and tedious, but pretty basic woodworking.

Just more hot air!

Sherm

 

[rhncue]

How exactly is this done? How do you get laminates mitred to exactly the right length? Is there some jig I should be using?

I've given this a shot and failed miserably. Some insight would be nice if you guys would be so kind.

[/QUOT

I built this cue a few months ago for a customer but since then he apparently lost his job and had to sell the cue.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-Ivory-Eb...0QQihZ019QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These could have turned out better and any future ones will since now I know what I am doing but it was my first attempt at this procedure.

The way I mitered the window veneers was to decide upon what size inner window I wanted. I then cut these windows out and then measured each side. I glued up my sheets of veneer and then cut them into .250" wide strips long enough to go around the inner window. I then clamped these strips down and using a 90 deg V-cutter set to cut about .008 to .010 up from the table I cut a V groove across the veneer strip at each of my corner measurements. When finished I then had a strip of the glued up veneers with 4 90 deg V grooves cut across. Now I merely folded the veneer at each grove and put in a dab of thin super glue at each seam. Now I had the veneer strips all glued up into a perfect box like a picture frame. Just had to then glue in the inner window and now you have a perfectly square inlay with good mitered veneers since they couldn't"t move out of alignment as they were never cut completely into separate pieces. Now all that was needed was to measure the outside dimensions of the window inlays and cut the pockets in the collar for them to fit.

To cut these groves accuarately you need a CNC Mill, a standard mill or mill/drill or something of that nature. A router table could be used I guess but it would be much more difficult cutting the grooves in your veneers so as to leave only 8 or 10ths of material before cutting completely thru.

Dick

 

[rhncue]

I just found a way of getting these pictures into the last message so I edited the message and now just posted this so that it would show unread.

Sorry for the wasted post.

Dick

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

I just found a way of getting these pictures into the last message so I edited the message and now just posted this so that it would show unread.

Sorry for the wasted post.

Dick

Gheezzzzzz......hold us in suspense all day long, will ya?

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

How exactly is this done? How do you get laminates mitred to exactly the right length? Is there some jig I should be using?

I've given this a shot and failed miserably. Some insight would be nice if you guys would be so kind.

[/QUOT

I built this cue a few months ago for a customer but since then he apparently lost his job and had to sell the cue.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Custom-Ivory-Eb...0QQihZ019QQcategoryZ21212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

These could have turned out better and any future ones will since now I know what I am doing but it was my first attempt at this procedure.

The way I mitered the window veneers was to decide upon what size inner window I wanted. I then cut these windows out and then measured each side. I glued up my sheets of veneer and then cut them into .250" wide strips long enough to go around the inner window. I then clamped these strips down and using a 90 deg V-cutter set to cut about .008 to .010 up from the table I cut a V groove across the veneer strip at each of my corner measurements. When finished I then had a strip of the glued up veneers with 4 90 deg V grooves cut across. Now I merely folded the veneer at each grove and put in a dab of thin super glue at each seam. Now I had the veneer strips all glued up into a perfect box like a picture frame. Just had to then glue in the inner window and now you have a perfectly square inlay with good mitered veneers since they couldn't"t move out of alignment as they were never cut completely into separate pieces. Now all that was needed was to measure the outside dimensions of the window inlays and cut the pockets in the collar for them to fit.

To cut these groves accuarately you need a CNC Mill, a standard mill or mill/drill or something of that nature. A router table could be used I guess but it would be much more difficult cutting the grooves in your veneers so as to leave only 8 or 10ths of material before cutting completely thru.

Dick

So if I am understanding you right........you just cut a groove for the two layers of veneers in the ebony?

 

[rhncue]

So if I am understanding you right........you just cut a groove for the two layers of veneers in the ebony?

No, The three veneers that are glued together are cut .250 wide and about 7" long. This strip is then laid down flat on the cutting surface with the inner veneer, the one that will be closest to the inner window, facing up. Now you cut the V-groove across the .250 width of the veneer where you want the 90 deg miter. By not cutting completely thru the three veneers you have your strip with the two 45 deg angles still attached to each other so that when you fold the strip to a 90 deg angle they don't come apart and can be glued perfectly. You just make your 4 grooves across the veneer strip the proper distance apart and then just fold and glue. I guess you could do it by just making a program where you leave an island in the ebony and then glue the mitered veneer frame into the ebony collar but then you would be limited in using the same wood for the collar and the inner window.

There are a couple of other little things that need to be done but once you start you will easily figure them out as its actually harder to explain than actually doing. One of which is cutting the grooves the right distance apart so that when folded the inside length is proper for the inner window inlay. Its actually easier to make the frame and then measure the inside dimensions and then making this inner inlay to fit those dimensions. Also, you need to make five grooves instead of four so that the end scrap can be broke or cut off leaving a 45 deg angle on each end so that the last 90 deg angle forming the box will join together.

Dick

 

[RSB-Refugee]

No, The three veneers that are glued together are cut .250 wide and about 7" long.

Have you ever thought of making it more than .250 wide? You could make it thicker and then slice off inlays on a band saw. You would have a mitered window billet. That way all the windows should come out exactly the same size and you could have enough for more than one cue, with only one mitering/glueing operation.

Tracy

I forgot to mention, I looked at the ebay link you posted. That is a very nice looking cue.

 

[rhncue]

Have you ever thought of making it more than .250 wide? You could make it thicker and then slice off inlays on a band saw. You would have a mitered window billet. That way all the windows should come out exactly the same size and you could have enough for more than one cue, with only one mitering/glueing operation.

Tracy

I forgot to mention, I looked at the ebay link you posted. That is a very nice looking cue.

Yes, it could be done that way. There are many options. I was just pointing out an extremely easy way of making mitered veneers for windows. The reason I do them independently is that I cut the pocket for the diamond or what ever else I intend putting into the window before I cut out the inner window. I also have a stomp shear so after gluing up my veneer sheets I just shear off the widths that I want for points, deco-rings or any place else I intend using them. I make my point veneers the same way as I made these window veneers. I have a jig made up that has a router with a 90 deg V bit mounted on 2 linear bearing tracks with a small vacuum table below the bit. The bit is around .006ths above the surface of the vacuum table. In this way I can put a single veneer or if I want ten veneers that have been glued up and they will all come out with a groove run down the middle leaving around .006ths for a hinge to be able to fold the veneers together for a practically seamless mitered veneer V groove point.

Dick

 

[RSB-Refugee]

The reason I do them independently is that I cut the pocket for the diamond or what ever else I intend putting into the window before I cut out the inner window.

That makes good sense. I just had the thought and wondered if it would work.

I have a jig made up that has a router with a 90 deg V bit mounted on 2 linear bearing tracks with a small vacuum table below the bit. The bit is around .006ths above the surface of the vacuum table. In this way I can put a single veneer or if I want ten veneers that have been glued up and they will all come out with a groove run down the middle leaving around .006ths for a hinge to be able to fold the veneers together for a practically seamless mitered veneer V groove point.

Dick

I admire how you and others are able to think up and create these various jigs and machines. I would like to be able to do that sort of thing, some day. I just started to learn to weld the other day. I don't know if it will help me any, but it can't hurt to learn something new.

Tracy

 

[rhncue]

That makes good sense. I just had the thought and wondered if it would work.

I admire how you and others are able to think up and create these various jigs and machines. I would like to be able to do that sort of thing, some day. I just started to learn to weld the other day. I don't know if it will help me any, but it can't hurt to learn something new.

Tracy

That's a coincidence, I know how to weld good enough for an amateur, although I haven't done it for years and am myself thinking of getting a welding outfit for a new machine I intend building.

Dick

 

[dzcues]

Yes, it could be done that way. There are many options. I was just pointing out an extremely easy way of making mitered veneers for windows. The reason I do them independently is that I cut the pocket for the diamond or what ever else I intend putting into the window before I cut out the inner window. I also have a stomp shear so after gluing up my veneer sheets I just shear off the widths that I want for points, deco-rings or any place else I intend using them. I make my point veneers the same way as I made these window veneers. I have a jig made up that has a router with a 90 deg V bit mounted on 2 linear bearing tracks with a small vacuum table below the bit. The bit is around .006ths above the surface of the vacuum table. In this way I can put a single veneer or if I want ten veneers that have been glued up and they will all come out with a groove run down the middle leaving around .006ths for a hinge to be able to fold the veneers together for a practically seamless mitered veneer V groove point.

Dick

Good post, Dick. This is almost exactly the way I do my veneers, too, except I grind my cutter to 86 degrees to get a better angle when making the fold. For some reason (inefficient cutting at the tip?) using a 90 degree cutter gives a funny angle when folding the veneers.

Anyway, I was recently spurred to do a mitered window, too, after having less than satisfactory results in the past. I made them the same way you did except I cut the cross Vs first, while the veneers were 1 1/4" wide, then I cut them into 1/4" wide strips. As you can see, the angle was off - but now it looks like I should have used the original 90 degree cutter. I suspect it has to do with cutting against the grain rather than with the grain as the point veneers folded perfectly. I'm anxious to try this again until I can get acceptable, repeatable results. (I should have experimented with a simpler cue. I'll probably have to give this one away with those sloppy windows.)

Nice looking cue, BTW. Your miters aren't bad at all & I like the proportions of your window.

 

[rhncue]

Good post, Dick. This is almost exactly the way I do my veneers, too, except I grind my cutter to 86 degrees to get a better angle when making the fold. For some reason (inefficient cutting at the tip?) using a 90 degree cutter gives a funny angle when folding the veneers.

Anyway, I was recently spurred to do a mitered window, too, after having less than satisfactory results in the past. I made them the same way you did except I cut the cross Vs first, while the veneers were 1 1/4" wide, then I cut them into 1/4" wide strips. As you can see, the angle was off - but now it looks like I should have used the original 90 degree cutter. I suspect it has to do with cutting against the grain rather than with the grain as the point veneers folded perfectly. I'm anxious to try this again until I can get acceptable, repeatable results. (I should have experimented with a simpler cue. I'll probably have to give this one away with those sloppy windows.)

Nice looking cue, BTW. Your miters aren't bad at all & I like the proportions of your window.

Thanks Bob for the information on the cutter angle. I knew that 90 deg wasn't correct for the point veneers but no one that I asked would tell me the correct angle for the V cutter. I'll take a couple over and have them reground tomorrow.

Dick