Moisture and Climate

[raemondo]

Hi guys,

As some of you know, I've been posting about getting a cue case.

One of my worries is that while I'm in the USA now, I'm returning to asia soon, and I will be dealing with the tropical climate. How does this affect my cues? I was thinking of getting an Instroke, but for better humdity protection, I might settle for something better. Someone even recommended me to put silica gel beads into my case to suck up that moisture.....

Well then, what are the factors that really make a cue warp? How is it accelerated in a tropical climate?

Some have also told me that regardless of the cue case I use, unless I put it in a climate controlled locker, it still may warp. I'm not asking for a solve-all solution here, but just something simple that I can do to reduce the likelihood of my cues warped....no one likes warped cues!!!

thanks!

 

[coastydad]

Moisture and climate

Hi guys,

As some of you know, I've been posting about getting a cue case.

One of my worries is that while I'm in the USA now, I'm returning to asia soon, and I will be dealing with the tropical climate. How does this affect my cues? I was thinking of getting an Instroke, but for better humdity protection, I might settle for something better. Someone even recommended me to put silica gel beads into my case to suck up that moisture.....

Well then, what are the factors that really make a cue warp? How is it accelerated in a tropical climate?

Some have also told me that regardless of the cue case I use, unless I put it in a climate controlled locker, it still may warp. I'm not asking for a solve-all solution here, but just something simple that I can do to reduce the likelihood of my cues warped....no one likes warped cues!!!

thanks!

You might also want to look at Ron Thomas' cases. First class workmanship, the case is virtually air tight and Ron is a great guy. His number is 337-237-0163. You can see some of his cases at the IndyQ website.

 

[drivermaker]

One of my worries is that while I'm in the USA now, I'm returning to asia soon, and I will be dealing with the tropical climate. How does this affect my cues?
thanks!

How does it affect your cues? Tell me ONE WAY that you think it might affect your cues in a positive way....Oooooops, time is up.

Hey, a lot of humidity and moisture will affect the WEIGHT of the cue by more than you realize as well as swelling. You might be able to see it around the ferrule or if you have an accurate digital scale know exactly how much.

If you don't have portable dehumidifiers available at low cost there, buy one here in the states and ship it over. In the summer I have a portable dehumidifier running 24/7 where my cues are stored in my home, which is from May to November.

 

[raemondo]

You might also want to look at Ron Thomas' cases. First class workmanship, the case is virtually air tight and Ron is a great guy. His number is 337-237-0163. You can see some of his cases at the IndyQ website.

Yea I've seen his cases and I must say, they are VERY impressive. They are also very expensive though, so I might just have to be settling for a cheaper case.

 

[raemondo]

How does it affect your cues? Tell me ONE WAY that you think it might affect your cues in a positive way....Oooooops, time is up.

Hey, a lot of humidity and moisture will affect the WEIGHT of the cue by more than you realize as well as swelling. You might be able to see it around the ferrule or if you have an accurate digital scale know exactly how much.

If you don't have portable dehumidifiers available at low cost there, buy one here in the states and ship it over. In the summer I have a portable dehumidifier running 24/7 where my cues are stored in my home, which is from May to November.

Okay this is good stuff....I didn't know that the wood will actually swell in a tropical climate. I do know that they're gonna affect my cues aversely but I also thought, hey, some of the world's greats are in Asia so I'm sure they must have found a way to decrease the chance of their cues warping....

How much is that portable dehumifier you have? Do you then keep your cues in some kind of locker at home? I know my dad does that with his cameras, but the case he has is definitely too small for my cues. Also, is the silica gel bead method viable at all?

 

[drivermaker]

Okay this is good stuff....I didn't know that the wood will actually swell in a tropical climate. I do know that they're gonna affect my cues aversely but I also thought, hey, some of the world's greats are in Asia so I'm sure they must have found a way to decrease the chance of their cues warping....

How much is that portable dehumifier you have? Do you then keep your cues in some kind of locker at home? I know my dad does that with his cameras, but the case he has is definitely too small for my cues. Also, is the silica gel bead method viable at all?

Hell yes it will swell in tropical climate. I can't remember how much it cost. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's while you're here and look at different models and prices.

I keep my cues in regular cases. I also have an accurate digital device that displays humidity and temperature. I keep the humidity between 45-50%. Sometimes it creeps up just a little higher and sometimes just a little lower.

When I lived in South Florida, which I think is sub-tropical, the cues "breathed" and I DID NOT have a humidifier there. Fortunately, I didn't have very many cues that were quite expensive.

 

[raemondo]

Hell yes it will swell in tropical climate. I can't remember how much it cost. Go to Home Depot or Lowe's while you're here and look at different models and prices.

I keep my cues in regular cases. I also have an accurate digital device that displays humidity and temperature. I keep the humidity between 45-50%. Sometimes it creeps up just a little higher and sometimes just a little lower.

When I lived in South Florida, which I think is sub-tropical, the cues "breathed" and I DID NOT have a humidifier there. Fortunately, I didn't have very many cues that were quite expensive.

Okay then if I'm getting you right, all I have to do is to place the dehumidifier in the room? I was wondering if I needed a special locker built or something. Yes, I think Florida is sub-tropical too. What do you mean by your cues "breathed"? If the cues swell in a tropical climate, will they go back to their normal size in a more controlled environment? Will this transition then increase the likelihood of warping?

thanks!

 

[Regulator1956]

Swell, Shrink ??

You guys have me confused.

Are you saying that a cue that began life in Arizona, lived there for a couple years and then moved to Florida will noticably swell ??

Conversely, a cue born in Florida and after a couple years moved to Arizona will shrink ??

I know certain woods are an issue - Linds warns about cheaper woods used in some of their cues - but if it an issue for all woods wouldn't all the dry climate custom cue makers have to post warnings on their websites to Florida buyers ??

 

[Tbeaux]

Silica gel will only work for a short time in heavy humidity. It becomes saturated very quickly. Best to get a good case (not necessarily expensive),keep a bag of silica gel in the case. Try to keep the cue in an air conditioned room. Avoid leaving it in the car. Silica gel can be "renewed" by baking at low temp (not sure about microwaves).
Another thing you can try is sealing the exposed ends of the butt wood. This won't help any with the shaft though. Maybe some kind of sealed tube for the shaft?

Terry

 

[Jon]

Terry,

As far as the shaft/butt end grain, a good set of JP's go a long way. Just make sure all the faces (butt, shafts and JP's) are clean and flat.

 

[drivermaker]

You guys have me confused.

Are you saying that a cue that began life in Arizona, lived there for a couple years and then moved to Florida will noticably swell ??

Conversely, a cue born in Florida and after a couple years moved to Arizona will shrink ??

I know certain woods are an issue - Linds warns about cheaper woods used in some of their cues - but if it an issue for all woods wouldn't all the dry climate custom cue makers have to post warnings on their websites to Florida buyers ??

I think you should start a thread over at "Ask the Cuemaker". They'll probably be able to tell you some stories about cues and weather or ones made in certain climate regions. You might also want to ask what their thoughts are on keeping a climate and humidity controlled environment in their shop while the cue building process is going on or for storing and curing wood.

Again, you can do your own test on this with an accurate digital scale if you get a cue made in a very dry climate and have it shipped and used in a humid area...or the difference in weight of the cue between summer and winter. Even though they use sealer, you can still see an increase of about 1/4 - 1/2 oz. That's a lot of moisture. What do you think can happen in the long run?
Wasn't it a little bit of moisture over the years that formed the Grand Canyon?

 

[drivermaker]

Okay then if I'm getting you right, all I have to do is to place the dehumidifier in the room? I was wondering if I needed a special locker built or something. Yes, I think Florida is sub-tropical too. What do you mean by your cues "breathed"? If the cues swell in a tropical climate, will they go back to their normal size in a more controlled environment? Will this transition then increase the likelihood of warping?

thanks!

Yes, just place the dehumidifier in the room with the doors closed so that humidity isn't pouring in from the outside and defeating the purpose.

I don't see where this locker thing works...maybe I'm missing something here.
As soon as you opened the door to the locker, wouldn't the humidity be inside? Or, if the locker had vents, wouldn't the humidity also be inside just like out? Or if the locker was made out of wood....wouldn't THAT wood be absorbing moisture to the inside? And isn't it possible that the inside of the locker could get much hotter than the outside and be CREATING humidity.
To me it would like being in a car with all the windows rolled up in August and no air conditioner on. Again...maybe I'm missing something....enlighten me.

Yes they will swell and then come back down. I think HOW you store your cues (very upright) is extremely important for warpage. If it's cockeyed or leaning gravity will take over and have an affect on the wood in addition to the climate changes.

 

[coastydad]

Terry,

As far as the shaft/butt end grain, a good set of JP's go a long way. Just make sure all the faces (butt, shafts and JP's) are clean and flat.

Good call Big Jon, I use joint protectors on all my cues and have consistently for years. Joint protectors and storing in a good case as vertical as possible are very important. Additionally, I always use cue wax on the exposed end grain of the shafts.

 

[bobroberts]

I don't know if I would be so quick to use Arizona as an example....I think it may be the worst overall climate for anything....

We get as low as 4% humidity at times...(dry heat ya know)....but we have whats called a monsoon season where you can set your clock by the storm that happens every after noon for a couple months....wood tends to change shape that time of year...

Florida has somthing very similar to the weather your talking about,usually its first thing in the morning then late in the afternoon it pours.I do believe as long as you keep your cues whrn not in use in a case and have the A.C. on 24/7 you should have nothing to worry about.i found a decent case ,all leather on flea-bay for about $80.Seeing that i am not trying to impress anyone this case is more then sufficent.
If you are interested in a case like that,I can give you the guys e-mail address where I bought mine.he sells a ton of them.
Bob

 

[raemondo]

Silica gel will only work for a short time in heavy humidity. It becomes saturated very quickly. Best to get a good case (not necessarily expensive),keep a bag of silica gel in the case. Try to keep the cue in an air conditioned room. Avoid leaving it in the car. Silica gel can be "renewed" by baking at low temp (not sure about microwaves).
Another thing you can try is sealing the exposed ends of the butt wood. This won't help any with the shaft though. Maybe some kind of sealed tube for the shaft?

Terry

Hi Terry,

You are right about the silica gel beads, my dad tells me the very same things. I prefer not to bake them cos they require high heat to be 'rejuvenated' so I just buy them in a large bottle and since they're cheap, it's not too much of an issue. The question is though, where should I put this bag of gel? I am getting an Instroke 2x4 and the only thing I can think of is to make small packets of them and place them into each of the 6 tubes...definitely just throwing the beads like that into the tubes might be kinda weird don't ya think!

Also, all my cues will have Joint Protectors, and I will try to keep them upright from now on. Bad thing though, is that the lockers where I play, are horizontal!!!

 

[raemondo]

Terry,

As far as the shaft/butt end grain, a good set of JP's go a long way. Just make sure all the faces (butt, shafts and JP's) are clean and flat.

Hi Big Jon,

How would Joint protectors really help? Does it help to create some kind of support for the cue to decrease the chance of warpage? If so, I could see how it would help shafts, but what about butts if I place them joint up? And yes...I believe my JPs are all flat...I dunno what you mean by clean...I use pechauer protectors and they are a lil rounded I think.

 

[raemondo]

Yes, just place the dehumidifier in the room with the doors closed so that humidity isn't pouring in from the outside and defeating the purpose.

I don't see where this locker thing works...maybe I'm missing something here.
As soon as you opened the door to the locker, wouldn't the humidity be inside? Or, if the locker had vents, wouldn't the humidity also be inside just like out? Or if the locker was made out of wood....wouldn't THAT wood be absorbing moisture to the inside? And isn't it possible that the inside of the locker could get much hotter than the outside and be CREATING humidity.
To me it would like being in a car with all the windows rolled up in August and no air conditioner on. Again...maybe I'm missing something....enlighten me.

Yes they will swell and then come back down. I think HOW you store your cues (very upright) is extremely important for warpage. If it's cockeyed or leaning gravity will take over and have an affect on the wood in addition to the climate changes.

Okay, so I know I have to cue my cues upright. Will just leaning it against the wall as upright as I can, be sufficient?

 

[raemondo]

Good call Big Jon, I use joint protectors on all my cues and have consistently for years. Joint protectors and storing in a good case as vertical as possible are very important. Additionally, I always use cue wax on the exposed end grain of the shafts.

Hi coastydad,

Pray tell, how will cue wax work, and where can I get it? If I also plan to use Joint protectors, do I apply the wax and then put on the jps?

 

[zeeder]

Hi Big Jon,

How would Joint protectors really help? Does it help to create some kind of support for the cue to decrease the chance of warpage? If so, I could see how it would help shafts, but what about butts if I place them joint up? And yes...I believe my JPs are all flat...I dunno what you mean by clean...I use pechauer protectors and they are a lil rounded I think.

I would imagine that the end grain is the most susceptable of absorbing moisture and it just happens to be the end grain that JPs would cover up thus making it harder for the moisture to get in.

 

[drivermaker]

Okay, so I know I have to cue my cues upright. Will just leaning it against the wall as upright as I can, be sufficient?

That's the way I do it, except all of my cases balance upright on their own without any lean or angle.