Mulitiple Instructors.
- Thread starter jeff113
- Start date
First Question. I guess it depends on if the first instructor is teaching you things you find valuable and that you see working.
Second Question. I have only had 1 lesson that that was a mutli hour group thing, I guess I would say like 2 hours but come with a list of shit you want to go over maybe...
I'd say at least an hour once a week for lessons, 2 would be better. Then you'd have a few hours of practice on your own, a few hours of playing someone in a tournament or whatever, and have a good rounded time on the table. Unless you have a ton of time and money and can play hours a day 5 times a week, then you may want to have two lessons and some practice/competition in the middle.
I don't think anyone can really say if you should have several instructors without seeing how he/she/they work and what they show/explain.
A good instructor would be able to switch to different techniques depending on what would work for you, instead of being set to one thing. For example someone may say "your bridge needs to be 4.5 inches long" and that's it or it's wrong. Another may say "try this length, if it does not work, let's see how this length works for you".
In my opinion, you want to pick a player you want to emulate. Your instructor should be that person. There are instances where getting lessons from multiple instructors can make sense. One person may be great with mechanics yet the other knows strategy for a specific game. If that isn't the case, you should consider cutting your instructors down to one person. I even know some instructors in NYC that will outright refuse a student unless they're the only instructor because they don't want to get into an argument with another instructor through a student. There is no single way to approach how to play pool so it's inevitable to hear a variety of answers to a single question.
That said, in my opinion, you need to give yourself time to practice if you're going to improve. It's not like a personal trainer at the gym. Pool instructors will give you a handful of knowledge which you need to incorporate into your game. That can take time. Seeing them once a week isn't necessarily going to make it happen any faster. You need to get on a table and hit it until it works.
In the end, I'm not a huge fan of instruction. I think a lot can be accomplished by simply playing pool and watching pool. Instruction should come when you feel you're not learning anymore. With all of the youtubes, live streams and books, there's enough material out there to keep you busy for years but if you're not getting anything out of them, by all means, talk to a professional.
That said, in my opinion, you need to give yourself time to practice if you're going to improve. It's not like a personal trainer at the gym. Pool instructors will give you a handful of knowledge which you need to incorporate into your game. That can take time. Seeing them once a week isn't necessarily going to make it happen any faster. You need to get on a table and hit it until it works.
In the end, I'm not a huge fan of instruction. I think a lot can be accomplished by simply playing pool and watching pool. Instruction should come when you feel you're not learning anymore. With all of the youtubes, live streams and books, there's enough material out there to keep you busy for years but if you're not getting anything out of them, by all means, talk to a professional.
I've only taken one lesson, and that was with Scott Lee. It was scheduled for 4 hours, but it actually ran for about 6, non-stop hours. He covers a ton of material, and I don't see how it could be done in less time. He records the entire lesson on a DVD, and there is a bunch of reading material too, so you can review it at your leisure.
It gave me a lot to think about, and was money well spent. :thumbup:
It gave me a lot to think about, and was money well spent. :thumbup:
1. If you look to tennis as an example, once you find one instructor (coach) you work well with, you stick with just that one for as long as you continue to get good results. (Different instructors may have conflicting styles and that could be counterproductive)
2. As for how often, as often as you can afford !....As far as I know, there no such thing as too much instruction/coaching. most great athletes have full time coaches.
EDIT - in other words if I could afford to pay SVB $500K a year to move in with me and be my full time coach, that is the best possible situation for getting better fast
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Oh, by-the-way, jeff 113, welcome to the forum.
You've probably noticed that an aiming thread is circulating about the board. Pay it no mind. It's actually not even supposed to be there.
You didn't mention your age, or how long you've been playing, but for what it's worth, here's my advice.
Hang around a pool hall.
Sit quietly and watch the good players play.
Always try to play someone who is either better than you, or your equal.
When you practice alone, set up shots that have been giving you trouble.
Play the ghost.
Run nine balls in reverse order, putting a ball out only if you pocket the ones preceding it.
Don't do drills (you'll only drive yourself crazy. Or, crazier.).
For God's sake, learn One Pocket. Many years down the road you'll thank me and Grady Mathews.
Try to hit one million and one balls.
The only aiming system you'll ever need is your brain and your eyeballs.
And, if some instructor tells you he can make an A player out of you in six months, send him down the road.
Have fun. :smile:
You've probably noticed that an aiming thread is circulating about the board. Pay it no mind. It's actually not even supposed to be there.
You didn't mention your age, or how long you've been playing, but for what it's worth, here's my advice.
Hang around a pool hall.
Sit quietly and watch the good players play.
Always try to play someone who is either better than you, or your equal.
When you practice alone, set up shots that have been giving you trouble.
Play the ghost.
Run nine balls in reverse order, putting a ball out only if you pocket the ones preceding it.
Don't do drills (you'll only drive yourself crazy. Or, crazier.).
For God's sake, learn One Pocket. Many years down the road you'll thank me and Grady Mathews.
Try to hit one million and one balls.
The only aiming system you'll ever need is your brain and your eyeballs.
And, if some instructor tells you he can make an A player out of you in six months, send him down the road.
Have fun. :smile:
2 lesson w Scott and 1 with his associate mark Finkelstein
Learned alot each time
I recommend both highly
I still have tons of difficulty keeping my hand loose and not giving the death grip
Throwing off my hit or miscueing in the process
But that's got nothing to do with the instructor
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Well said!
Find a player who's style you like and watch him as much as you can, then find a table a go to work, its motivating.
Ko Pin Yi, Jeffery Ignacio, SVB are on the top of my list, I watch a video of one of them everyday.
Find a player who's style you like and watch him as much as you can, then find a table a go to work, its motivating.
Ko Pin Yi, Jeffery Ignacio, SVB are on the top of my list, I watch a video of one of them everyday.
Glad to see you want to learn & improve.
Because we are all a bit different that could make instructors different in their methods. But all or most of the SPF instructors are probably going to adhere to their specific methods. That is one area of thought, Stan Shuffett may teach in a different manner....
As an ex-Golf Instructor, I can tell you this (I also help folks learn the game Of Pool), the most important facet of a teacher-student relationship is COMMUNICATION.
Methodical instruction is probably the second facet to consider.
One other facet is this.... too much at any one time can be confusing & wasteful. I would also suggest taping any instruction, so that you may refer back to the "live instruction" later.
Good Luck.
As an instructor, here's what I would recommend:
1.) Try a different instructor in the beginning if you aren't totally comfortable with the one you have. Once you're comfortable with that person and you think you have a good rapport, then give him or her a chance to help you improve your game, and most of all --- do your homework.
2.) It helps to have an instructor who is local so you can see them on a regular basis. How often depends on how much practice time you put into your game. If you only practice one hour after your lesson, then you shouldn't be scheduling another lesson. You need several hours of practice or your instructor will have to be repeating the same things over and over, and you'll be wasting your money.
3.) As an instructor, I have often referred my clients to another instructor at a particular point in their development, depending on their needs, because I have my client's best interest at heart and not how much money they are going to put into my pocket.
4.) Never be embarrassed to tell an instructor that you were thinking of trying someone else as well, or feel funny asking them for a recommendation. Go for it!
First off, all instructors are not created equal.
Some teach better, some play better and some do both better. Search around, after you find an instructor that helps you the most, spend more time with that instructor.
As to those who don't recommend instructors, I can tell you positively, that they help. While watching other players, watching pool instructional videos and watching pool matches are GREAT THINGS, some things a player will never know on his or her own.
A couple of days ago I was giving instruction to a fairly accomplished player who is a working man and has a table at home. He has had instruction from other "good players" but he knew his game wasn't progressing as it should.
By simple observation, I noticed that the player was addressing the cue ball from at least 2 full inches away. I asked him is he felt his cue tip was close to the cue ball, at cue ball address and he said yes. I knew better because it was obvious his cue tip was too far from the cue ball for accuracy's sake. I told him he was almost a full cue ball's distance from the cue ball. Now this is a player who can run a rack on a bar table with regular consistency and one who gets fair shape to boot. But every now and then his cue ball would take a track that he didn't intend on. He was ASTOUNDED, when I told him to put his cue tip close to the cue ball and when he confirmed it was CLOSE to the cue ball, I told him he was STILL a FULL inch away from the cue ball, he couldn't believe it, so I placed a cube of chalk between his tip and the cue ball and the chalk touched neither the tip nor the cue ball. A cube of Master's chalk is 7/8" in width. I suggested that he move his tip closer to the cue ball and it was a struggle for him to get it any closer than 1/2" without me physically moving the shaft closer with my hand. :smile: After a while he started seeing the perspective of a tip at the correct cue ball address but it will take a lot of work for him to develop this habit.
There were some other things that he does well and some that he does not do well. I asked him to correct a couple of things and he immediately felt more comfortable with the new information and am looking forward to reviewing his progress in a few weeks. I believe it takes a few weeks of diligent practice to change or make a habit.
Sometimes the shooter just doesn't know what they should be doing and sometimes the shooter just doesn't know what they are doing. An instructor and even a person who pays attention to problem areas can wise the shooter up. Getting the shooter to do the right thing, consistently, is a whole new challenge.
JoeyA
Some teach better, some play better and some do both better. Search around, after you find an instructor that helps you the most, spend more time with that instructor.
As to those who don't recommend instructors, I can tell you positively, that they help. While watching other players, watching pool instructional videos and watching pool matches are GREAT THINGS, some things a player will never know on his or her own.
A couple of days ago I was giving instruction to a fairly accomplished player who is a working man and has a table at home. He has had instruction from other "good players" but he knew his game wasn't progressing as it should.
By simple observation, I noticed that the player was addressing the cue ball from at least 2 full inches away. I asked him is he felt his cue tip was close to the cue ball, at cue ball address and he said yes. I knew better because it was obvious his cue tip was too far from the cue ball for accuracy's sake. I told him he was almost a full cue ball's distance from the cue ball. Now this is a player who can run a rack on a bar table with regular consistency and one who gets fair shape to boot. But every now and then his cue ball would take a track that he didn't intend on. He was ASTOUNDED, when I told him to put his cue tip close to the cue ball and when he confirmed it was CLOSE to the cue ball, I told him he was STILL a FULL inch away from the cue ball, he couldn't believe it, so I placed a cube of chalk between his tip and the cue ball and the chalk touched neither the tip nor the cue ball. A cube of Master's chalk is 7/8" in width. I suggested that he move his tip closer to the cue ball and it was a struggle for him to get it any closer than 1/2" without me physically moving the shaft closer with my hand. :smile: After a while he started seeing the perspective of a tip at the correct cue ball address but it will take a lot of work for him to develop this habit.
There were some other things that he does well and some that he does not do well. I asked him to correct a couple of things and he immediately felt more comfortable with the new information and am looking forward to reviewing his progress in a few weeks. I believe it takes a few weeks of diligent practice to change or make a habit.
Sometimes the shooter just doesn't know what they should be doing and sometimes the shooter just doesn't know what they are doing. An instructor and even a person who pays attention to problem areas can wise the shooter up. Getting the shooter to do the right thing, consistently, is a whole new challenge.
JoeyA
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a) 1 hour per week with an instructor
b) 8 hours per week practicing alone
c) 3 hours a week playing for real.
My .02
It depends on what level you are at. If you are a complete beginner, 1 lesson a week should be fine to get the basics during the lesson and a whole week to work on those things.
I highly recommend using video analysis. It's very hard to describe how somebody is doing something wrong ie: bridge, follow through, grip, stance, etc. If there is video from the front, side and rear, it's much easier to see it yourself.
Good luck and keep stroking! :thumbup:
one bad instructor
Great points.
I would never deny a person lessons if they wanted to see other instructors. I encourage it.
And an important reason to see more than one instructor...just like with mechanics, doctors, lawyers, etc., somewhere lurks the worst instructor in the world, and right now someone is getting lessons from them.
This is why becoming certified can be important. Just claiming you teach pool, or even having a website does not make one a qualified instructor. I've met "instructors" who have rather limited actual knowledge and others who have knowledge but lack teaching skills, even the ability to observe properly...without which one cannot hope to teach effectively.
Example: Not long ago, I watched an "instructor" give a young man of about 13 several hours of lessons. He focused on where to hit the cue ball and little else. The student had his grip hand just a few inches behind the joint (well in front of the wrap) and thus could not follow through much. His "teacher" never noticed this and the youngster really struggled.
Great points.
I would never deny a person lessons if they wanted to see other instructors. I encourage it.
And an important reason to see more than one instructor...just like with mechanics, doctors, lawyers, etc., somewhere lurks the worst instructor in the world, and right now someone is getting lessons from them.
This is why becoming certified can be important. Just claiming you teach pool, or even having a website does not make one a qualified instructor. I've met "instructors" who have rather limited actual knowledge and others who have knowledge but lack teaching skills, even the ability to observe properly...without which one cannot hope to teach effectively.
Example: Not long ago, I watched an "instructor" give a young man of about 13 several hours of lessons. He focused on where to hit the cue ball and little else. The student had his grip hand just a few inches behind the joint (well in front of the wrap) and thus could not follow through much. His "teacher" never noticed this and the youngster really struggled.
Thanks everyone again. I've been shooting pool on and off for about 20 years, I'm 37 now. I haven't shot in over 4 year on a regular basics until a month and a half ago. I've joined APA, currently a 5 probably will be a 6 soon (since I'm 5 and 0) I used to play one pocket but and still love the game. Everyone I played with has gotten better while I've gotten worse. I moved last month and have a 9ft table at home to practice on. I just want to get better.