My night in review..

Y

Yokel

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So another Sunday, and another 6 hours of table time :D

So I found a house cue that I really liked last night... and don't laugh :rolleyes: It's one of the oldest looking, worn-out, dirtiest cues that they have, but it has a new tip on it and it's damned near perfectly straight :)

I thought I'd get smart and stuck the ugliest cue in the house behind the most worn-out looking table in the corner of the room. I figured my baby was safe until I got there and it was missing, only to discover someone else with their grubby hands on her :mad:

So I found a different stick and started doing what I always do to start the night and thats break and just try to sink as many in a row as possible :D I was doing decently, pocketing 3 or 4 balls in row before I would decide to try a shot I knew was a problem for me but to try anyways... and I would always have a problem either getting the right deflection off the ball to roll to the next one, or just getting the right stroke to even pocket the ball on a sharp cut sometimes.

After 45 minutes or so the couple left that were in possession of my new-favorite cue and I got it back and went back to shooting. After an hour of playing 8-ball by myself (alternating between solid/stripe when you miss/scatch... it's not the greatest skill game, but I'm not the greatest player either, bear with me here :cool: ), a man named Kevin asked me to join him on his table and we started playing.

We started out playing a game of 8-ball that he won when I had one ball left on the table. After that I humored him and decided I was ready to get reemed in 9-ball :D Now, it's not that I'm a horible shot maker... it's just that the whole play for position on a ball 3 turns in advanced thing just isn't in my bag of tricks just yet. I'm still in the mind-frame of "you have to sink this ball to move on to the next... concentrate on this one, worry about the next one after". So he gets the break in our first game of 9-ball and he decides it would be a great way to stat by running 4 balls, and combo'ing the 6 into the 9 for the game :p

Our next game he breaks, sinks one on the break, runs two balls and is stuck on the 4, so he plays a safe behind the 6, which are both hugging the head rail about 2" right of center table, while the CB is stuck on the foot rail about 1" to the right with just a fraction of the 4 poking out (if I knew how to use those fancy table diagrams you folks do, I would... trust me :/ ). So with 1/4 beautiful top right english and 3/4 of some very nice luck, I nut the 4 in the opposite corner and come 3 cushions back down to the foot rail for the 5.

Now the point of this isn't me actually pocketing the ball it's the fact I can almost guarentee after almost an hour of using that other cue... there would have been no way I would have pulled that off. I tried almost 2 dozen shots like that without another ball even in the way and I couldn't get it right.

We ended the night something like 2-5/6 (with one of my wins coming off of one of my best double bank shots ever :D ), but Kevin was actual very nice about me being a much lower player and even stopped the game a few times to show me how he would play it, and 80% of the time I'd do it almost exactly as he described on the first try. He was pretty good about getting the points across he was trying to make. Long story short, after he left I decided to see what would happen if I tried some of the same shots he set up for me with a different cue to see what would happen.

Now about 65% of the time I would make the same shots without much difficuly pocketing the ball, but I wouldn't get the deflection I was aiming for and would leave myself in a bad position moving on. After 30 minutes or so I went back to the Ugly Stick (my loving new name for her:p ) and I would pocket the shots and get the angle I wanted with much more consistency.

Looking back on the night I feel I was doing pretty decently on the whole, but the whole cue thing has started bugging me. Do you folks think that equipment plays that much of a factor into simple shot making (ok some of the shots i am using for reference aren't exactly simple, but as I said, even getting the right spin on the CB was hard at times using the other stick...), or is it more of my mind going into one of those "Wow, I bet I would have made that with the other cue" mentalities, that sets me up for when I'm simply getting better at the shots, that I believe it's the cue that I am using?

Now I've been told and, believe, that even if you play with the same worthless Cuetec cue every day that you will still become more consistent because you will be familiar with how the cue plays. My question is, does the equipment matter to the point of throwing off the ending angle of a simple 3-foot, 70 degree cut shot? Or is it my mind playing tricks on me?
 
I have a feeling a few things are happening. One you shot well with your new favorite house cue. So subconcious you thinks its better. Two. It may be a better cue, the looks arent what makes it shoot well. Another thing may be the weight, shaft thickness, type of tip, type of ferrule, and there are many factors that could change how they play between each other. So Yes Equipment Matters!! House cues seem to very as much as production cues. All though most production cues will shoot like the one before it. I dont own any expensive customs so I can say for thos folks. But when I bought my Joss I totally changed my ability-which could me the subconcious me. But between the stock shaft and the Predator 3.14 II I notice a hell of a difference. You may ask the rooowners to set that aside for you or offer to pay for it. They arent expensive and some room owners if you play there enough have no problem setting one aside for a good customer.
 
It doesn't sound like you're using the term "deflection" in the commonly used sense, but if you're using a lot of English then the different cues could be an issue.
 
Yokel said:
. Do you folks think that equipment plays that much of a factor into simple shot making (ok some of the shots i am using for reference aren't exactly simple, but as I said, even getting the right spin on the CB was hard at times using the other stick...), or is it more of my mind going into one of those "Wow, I bet I would have made that with the other cue" mentalities, that sets me up for when I'm simply getting better at the shots, that I believe it's the cue that I am using?

Now I've been told and, believe, that even if you play with the same worthless Cuetec cue every day that you will still become more consistent because you will be familiar with how the cue plays. My question is, does the equipment matter to the point of throwing off the ending angle of a simple 3-foot, 70 degree cut shot? Or is it my mind playing tricks on me?
Click to expand...

Yes and no.

As far potting balls go, it doesn't matter what cue I am using. When messing around I will run half a rack with my break cue and finish it off with my playing cue. I have played some great pool with a house cue as well. So in that respect, it's all in your head.

It becomes important to have your own cue for two reasons. The first being spin and position play.

With my playing cue I know how much spin I can get on the ball so that it reacts they way I expect it to. More importantly however I know how much, or how little, the cue ball will deflect when I use side spin. When I am using a house cue, I will very rarely hit anywhere outside of the centre axis of the ball, as I am unfamiliar as to how it will react.

The second reason is comfortability.

A good cue is properly weighted, which allows you to create a straighter stroke with less effort. That extra quarter ounce in a cue makes a big difference. With that in mind, I feel like I can play effortlessly with my own cue, whereas it may be a bit of a struggle with something I take off the wall.
 
Thank you for all the insight into my questions, everyone :)

PKM said:
It doesn't sound like you're using the term "deflection" in the commonly used sense, but if you're using a lot of English then the different cues could be an issue.
Click to expand...

Um.. I'm trying to describe the angle the CB bounces off the OB when I say "deflecting off a ball". Sorry if I am confusing the term, but it was the word that came to mind when I was trying to describe the reaction.

What is the commonly-used sense, so I don't confuse the term again? :p
 
Congratulations you've asked a great question about terminology. I don't know which part everyone is from but some call it the path post collision.

Others have fancy one-liners like deflection, incidence, or after the cue ball hits the object ball. I like the last one best because it is direct and clear. And not pushy.
 
sticks see heavy use for a reason

Sticks see heavy use for a reason. The first sticks I check out looking for a house cue to play with are the ones showing the most wear. As likely as not someone has stripped the varnish off of the playing area, one big plus. They are usually straight or have an excellent tip on them. Something usually has people wanting to play with that ratty looking stick.

I usually had three or four decent playing sticks in a place noted in my mind so that when I walked in and grabbed a stick it wasn't nearly as casually as it seemed. Now I just look for a stick showing high wear and glance at the tip and run a hand down the shaft area before grabbing it off the wall. This usually works just fine. I don't know that any custom cue plays better than a good working house cue but they are easier to tote and much more impressive to look at.

Hu




Yokel said:
So another Sunday, and another 6 hours of table time :D

So I found a house cue that I really liked last night... and don't laugh :rolleyes: It's one of the oldest looking, worn-out, dirtiest cues that they have, but it has a new tip on it and it's damned near perfectly straight :)

I thought I'd get smart and stuck the ugliest cue in the house behind the most worn-out looking table in the corner of the room. I figured my baby was safe until I got there and it was missing, only to discover someone else with their grubby hands on her :mad:

So I found a different stick and started doing what I always do to start the night and thats break and just try to sink as many in a row as possible :D I was doing decently, pocketing 3 or 4 balls in row before I would decide to try a shot I knew was a problem for me but to try anyways... and I would always have a problem either getting the right deflection off the ball to roll to the next one, or just getting the right stroke to even pocket the ball on a sharp cut sometimes.

After 45 minutes or so the couple left that were in possession of my new-favorite cue and I got it back and went back to shooting. After an hour of playing 8-ball by myself (alternating between solid/stripe when you miss/scatch... it's not the greatest skill game, but I'm not the greatest player either, bear with me here :cool: ), a man named Kevin asked me to join him on his table and we started playing.

We started out playing a game of 8-ball that he won when I had one ball left on the table. After that I humored him and decided I was ready to get reemed in 9-ball :D Now, it's not that I'm a horible shot maker... it's just that the whole play for position on a ball 3 turns in advanced thing just isn't in my bag of tricks just yet. I'm still in the mind-frame of "you have to sink this ball to move on to the next... concentrate on this one, worry about the next one after". So he gets the break in our first game of 9-ball and he decides it would be a great way to stat by running 4 balls, and combo'ing the 6 into the 9 for the game :p

Our next game he breaks, sinks one on the break, runs two balls and is stuck on the 4, so he plays a safe behind the 6, which are both hugging the head rail about 2" right of center table, while the CB is stuck on the foot rail about 1" to the right with just a fraction of the 4 poking out (if I knew how to use those fancy table diagrams you folks do, I would... trust me :/ ). So with 1/4 beautiful top right english and 3/4 of some very nice luck, I nut the 4 in the opposite corner and come 3 cushions back down to the foot rail for the 5.

Now the point of this isn't me actually pocketing the ball it's the fact I can almost guarentee after almost an hour of using that other cue... there would have been no way I would have pulled that off. I tried almost 2 dozen shots like that without another ball even in the way and I couldn't get it right.

We ended the night something like 2-5/6 (with one of my wins coming off of one of my best double bank shots ever :D ), but Kevin was actual very nice about me being a much lower player and even stopped the game a few times to show me how he would play it, and 80% of the time I'd do it almost exactly as he described on the first try. He was pretty good about getting the points across he was trying to make. Long story short, after he left I decided to see what would happen if I tried some of the same shots he set up for me with a different cue to see what would happen.

Now about 65% of the time I would make the same shots without much difficuly pocketing the ball, but I wouldn't get the deflection I was aiming for and would leave myself in a bad position moving on. After 30 minutes or so I went back to the Ugly Stick (my loving new name for her:p ) and I would pocket the shots and get the angle I wanted with much more consistency.

Looking back on the night I feel I was doing pretty decently on the whole, but the whole cue thing has started bugging me. Do you folks think that equipment plays that much of a factor into simple shot making (ok some of the shots i am using for reference aren't exactly simple, but as I said, even getting the right spin on the CB was hard at times using the other stick...), or is it more of my mind going into one of those "Wow, I bet I would have made that with the other cue" mentalities, that sets me up for when I'm simply getting better at the shots, that I believe it's the cue that I am using?

Now I've been told and, believe, that even if you play with the same worthless Cuetec cue every day that you will still become more consistent because you will be familiar with how the cue plays. My question is, does the equipment matter to the point of throwing off the ending angle of a simple 3-foot, 70 degree cut shot? Or is it my mind playing tricks on me?
Click to expand...
 
Yokel said:
Um.. I'm trying to describe the angle the CB bounces off the OB when I say "deflecting off a ball". Sorry if I am confusing the term, but it was the word that came to mind when I was trying to describe the reaction.

What is the commonly-used sense, so I don't confuse the term again? :p
Click to expand...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but usually when people say deflection they mean when the cue ball is pushed off the aiming line in the opposite direction of the English applied (left English pushes the CB to the right). In this sense it is synonymous with "squirt." Some people maintain that deflection refers to the movement of the cue stick off the cue ball due to English, which accounts for the amount of squirt (if the cue is deflected out of the way, then the CB will not be pushed off line as much, so in this case low deflection would result in a lot of squirt). I don't believe the latter usage is very common -- usually Predator is referred to as a low deflection cue for example. It is usually clear from the context.
 
PKM said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but usually when people say deflection they mean when the cue ball is pushed off the aiming line in the opposite direction of the English applied (left English pushes the CB to the right). In this sense it is synonymous with "squirt." Some people maintain that deflection refers to the movement of the cue stick off the cue ball due to English, which accounts for the amount of squirt (if the cue is deflected out of the way, then the CB will not be pushed off line as much, so in this case low deflection would result in a lot of squirt). I don't believe the latter usage is very common -- usually Predator is referred to as a low deflection cue for example. It is usually clear from the context.
Click to expand...


man all these new terms, 20 years ago we found a cue we liked and used it, i still do today, i cant get this technical, i'm done with school, my opinion is just play, practiceX3 and you'll get there. best fatboy
 
I think your equiptment can certainly impact your game, especially if your first learning or just beging to learn the game more. This is because you havent learned to adapt to different cues yet.

For example, if you like to hit harder, you might do a lot better with a stiffer hitting cue. Other cues might be to "whippy" for your style of play. A more experienced player will be able to adapt to that quicker.

Finding the right cue weight is another factor.

Confidence also has another factor in it also. As does the tip condition. but mainly its your stroke thats going to determine how many balls you pocket. So its a whole lot of factors. But a good cue does help. An experienced player can adapt to whatever cue. A begining player will notice a difference in eqiptment a lot more.




As far as the deflection, squirt definitions. From what I understand, deflection is where the cue ball hits after it squirts (how far it impacts the spot your aiming for). Squirt is the curve that is created on the cue ball after you place english on it. Squirt can be ( (slight curve)or it can be C (moderate curve) etc. But its impact on the aim spot is how much it has been deflected right? Thats how it is measureable at least right? Deflection can be measured. Squirt can not. So if your aiming at the center diamond and apply english. Deflection is how far away the cue ball hits away from the center diamond. Squirt is the path (curvature of the cue ball) it took before it hit the rail.

Vic
 
As far as the whole equipment thing goes, owning your own helps because every time you play somewhere you are moving to a different table with different felt and different rails and balls and lighting, so by always using "your" cue it's just one more factor that you are removing from the game, one less thing to get use to.

As far as the definitions go, this is how I understand it...

Deflection is when using left or right english the cue ball does not move in a line directly parallel to the cue shaft do to the shaft impacting on a point on the cue ball that does not bisect the center of the ball. This forces the shaft and the ball to move not only forward, but also away from each other as the shaft flexes and the cue ball strays away from the line parallel to the shaft. Low deflection shafts typically have two characteristics, first of all they normally have a lower amount of mass at their tip, this means that it will take less energy to flex the tip away from the cueball after contact, and secondly they normally have a more flexible taper on them, for the same reason.

Squirt, or swerve, is when the spin that is placed on the cueball when using left or right english causes the cueball to curve. This is due to the spin "catching" the cloth on the table and therefore altering its path while it is already in motion.

Now I'm sure I've screwed something up here. I wish Cornerman would show up and correct me... ;)

-Justin
 
Thanks for all the information and opinions everyone :)

OK, so after pondering it, I think I am going to offer to buy that house cue for like $15 until I get my hands on the Dominiak I am having made :D

I mean I really want something that I know will hit the same way everytime... I may look a little funny walking into the pool hall with my personal house cue, but screw it, whatever work right?

Besides, I'm attatched to her now... she has to come home ><
 
Yokel said:
Thanks for all the information and opinions everyone :)

OK, so after pondering it, I think I am going to offer to buy that house cue for like $15 until I get my hands on the Dominiak I am having made :D

I mean I really want something that I know will hit the same way everytime... I may look a little funny walking into the pool hall with my personal house cue, but screw it, whatever work right?

Besides, I'm attatched to her now... she has to come home ><
Click to expand...


At one point I thought about doing that also. I was playing at a pool hall in queens, New York with my brother. Since my cue was in FL at the time, I picked up a house cue. It had a SUPER "pingy" hit to it. Every shot had a "dink" and it hit nice and stiff. Man that was a great cue. I thought about offering 50$-100$ to the owner for it but then thought about having to find a way to send it all the way to FL then the cost of having it converted and what it could loose in feel once it was converted. I decided not to buy it. I still regret the decision :(

BUY that cue if you like it and the house is willing to sell it. Learn from my regrets lol

Vic
 
vicdotcom said:
At one point I thought about doing that also. I was playing at a pool hall in queens, New York with my brother. Since my cue was in FL at the time, I picked up a house cue. It had a SUPER "pingy" hit to it. Every shot had a "dink" and it hit nice and stiff. Man that was a great cue. I thought about offering 50$-100$ to the owner for it but then thought about having to find a way to send it all the way to FL then the cost of having it converted and what it could loose in feel once it was converted. I decided not to buy it. I still regret the decision :(

BUY that cue if you like it and the house is willing to sell it. Learn from my regrets lol

Vic
Click to expand...


She will be riding beside me on the ride home... believe me :D

Like I said... I may look goofy walking in with a full-size house cue every night, but at least I'll have something I like until my new cue gets payed for, finished, and shipped :p
 
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