my opinion after playing in several leagues

[lorider]

diogennes thread about regaining his focus after quiting league and several replies from others got me to thinking about my own experience.

WARNING !... LONG AND RAMBLING POST AHEAD !

i began playing pool as a teenageer with my step father and his father in law. i wound up being better than them which aint saying much. soon after i started playing in bars every fri and sat night. after a few years i quit for about 30 due to the marriage...kids...other interests such as soft ball and raquet ball.

fast forward to about 10 years ago. kids grown...wife left...started hitting bars and playing pool every fri and sat night again. one night after about 6 months back playing i played a guy named jeff who after i won about 4 in a row off of asked me what league i played in.

me...dont play league...i never have.

jeff...why not ?

me...i never thought i was good enough.

jeff... heck ..you are better than any body on my team.. show up at high pockets sun night and join my team

well i showed up sun night and he introduced me to his captain...tim. .tim proceeds to grill me with...what leagues have you played ...whats your handiicap...yada yada yada.

i said i have never played league. tim looks at jeff with a wtf? look on his face. jeff ..upon seeing tims puzzled look says....this guy is pretty damn good. then tim asks me ...can you make a straight in shot ? i say yea...more often than not but since i aint exactly a pro i have been known to miss an easy shot once in a while. well tim says...i think i will keep my team as it is.

jeff starts apologizing to me and says let me introduce you to the lo. the lo says i have a team looking for a player. hie introduces me to bruce. so i tell bruce i will join his team.

when bruce tells me itsa bcapl 9 ball league i want to turn tail and run. being a bar rule guy for years i hated 9 ball due to the slop factor. but being a man of my word i stuck it out. hatwed the round robin format also. i would have rathered played a set like i saw the pros do on tv.i became receptive after a while because ...hey its pool :grin-square: a few weeks later my team faces tims team. after the match was over tim comes up to me and says...damn ..if i knew you was that good i would have taken you....you can join my team next session if you want. i say ...no thanks i am ok with the team i am on.

several weeks later the lo approaches me and asks if i would be interested in an 8 ball league also. i said heck yea ! ::grin:

i show up wed night and the lo introduces me to the captain. the captain...randy upon learning i have never played bcapl 8 ball starts telling me the rules.

1. open break. well.... ok... its easier to run out.
2. bih after a foul. yea i learned that in 9 ball.
3.round robin....wtf ? why dont you play a race like real pool ?
4. call your shot...yea this bar rule player likes that rule.:grin:
5. points based....you get a point for every ball of your suit that is down....whether you made it or not. again ...wtf ? oh well... i am gonna try to be the first one to pot the 8 ball like i always do ....dont matter about the points to me.

our 8 ball team had the best player in league on it. i tried to learn from watching him.i also tried to have him give me time outs. after a few times i called time out and he was always giving me the " wtf" you bothering me for look " i quit asking him.

during the following year i also joined a traveling money league and and in house league on 9 footers. so i wound up playing 4 nights a week cause every one was asking me to join their team and i just loved to play pool.

a year goes by and life threw me a couple of curve balls and turned my life us side down. as a result i quit pool entirely for 4 years.

me best memory in bcapl . being chosen to play twice one night in my 8 ball league because we were short handed. as a result i played 10 matches the night instead of the normal 5 and won 9 of them

my worst memory in bcapl. we are in the finals for a trip to vegas. last match and we are up a few points. we have 2 players left...me and the captain.. the captain throws himself and promptly gets his butt handed to him and we lose.

aeveral members of the team get pissed and quit. they said he never should have thrown himself ...being a 3 when we had me ...a 5 available to go against their 4.

in summary....my opinion ...based on my own experience of course..

money leagues....full of sandbaggers and players who get too intense and too emotional chasing the almighty dollar.

bcapl.... i saw in person the same as i read on here. its full of people who are self centered and look down their nose at new players. funny thing is i was just as good a shot maker as most of them.. once i started embracing defense and learning some semblance of cue ball control the better players were a little more amicable towards me.its strange how most had a " why should i teach you any thing so you can beat me " attitude.

to be continued.......:smile:

 

[poolhustler]

.............cool...............

 

[cardiac kid]

Lowrider,

Don't understand one point. You mentioned your BCAPL low point. How do you get to play with such low handicaps? In the league I play in in Rochester, I'm rated as a 10.5. As we use the 10 point system, I give up half a point to totals each time I win. Our lowest rated league player is a 6.5. How do you get a 3 in BCAPL? No criticising, just questioning.

Lyn

 

[lorider]

fast forward 4 years.

i have been back playing pool at bars for about 5-6 months and was a regular at one particular bar. a guff named jason and his g/f always sat with me and we played a pool often. one night jason and his g/f introduce me to a friend of theirs and we hit it off and started dating.well she asked me to join her league team. my 1st reply was no ...but women can be persuasive and i relented and joined.

when i get their i find out is is apa double jeapordy. they start telling me all the rules. 9 ball
slop counts ....whats new ?
race to your points level....yea...a real race like real pool .
points based.....wtf? well i said the same thing about bcapl 8 ball lol.

8 ball.

closed break....i can live with that being a bar rule player.
behind the line on a scratch on break...again...i can live with that.
slop counts....wtf ? oh the blasphemy of playing slop in 8 ball. learned to live with that too.:embarrassed2:
mark you pocket on the 8 ball....wtf ? damned what a stupid rule. after ingesting it for a lil bit i could see the upside of it. no more waving my hands or yelling at my opponent when he is jaw jacking with a team mate in order to get his attention. always thought that was a shark move when they are ignoring you. why all the b.s. from me in order to get my opponents attention when calling the 8 ball ? i got tired of them complaining...i did not hear you call that pocket after i sink the 8. well you shoulda been paying attention should;nt you ? always led to pissing contests from a few bcapl players.not gonna have that drama if you mark your pocket. besides it affords you the opportunity to get a different angle if you so desire on a particular shot. pf course a lot of apa players can be gentleman and agree to just call the pocket without marking it.

again i have been asked to play on several teams over the last 4 years now. i have stayed on the same team with my g/f and 1 other member of the original team for 4 years on sun nights. been playing on a tue night travel 8 ball team for 2 years. played on a fri night scotch doubles team for a year. quit and just started up another fri night scotch doubles with my g/f. during the last 4 years i have also played on a few money league teams again...both in house and traveling. also joined a napa league a couple of years ago...more on that in another post.

what i have found differs from what most on here state concerning apa.

drunks....only encountered 1 during the last 4 years. the lo booted him after 3 weeks because of complaints about his inebriation.
sandbaggers....encounterd a few i thought were....hell i have been accused of being a sand bagger more than once myself.
most people are serious about their game but at the same time realize its not the end of the world after a loss.
a lot of higher level players do not mind helping lower level players at all. actually most seem to enjoy it and stay late after matches are over playing with lower level players
assholes....money leagues out number apa 5-1

my best moment so far.....vegas last year ..my 1st 9 ball match vs another 5. i won 38-4 earning my 1st ever skunk in 4 years and it happened at the nationals no less.

my worst moment.... being put out of a 9 ball singles qualifier by a s/l 1. being a 5 thats embarrasing as hell. talk about having a bad day, :embarrassed2:embarrassed2:

 

[lorider]

Lowrider,

Don't understand one point. You mentioned your BCAPL low point. How do you get to play with such low handicaps? In the league I play in in Rochester, I'm rated as a 10.5. As we use the 10 point system, I give up half a point to totals each time I win. Our lowest rated league player is a 6.5. How do you get a 3 in BCAPL? No criticising, just questioning.

Lyn

i can not answer that lynn. i have no idea how the lo handicapped players back then. i just know that the captain was 3 . i do remember i was ranked a 3 when i 1st started 9 ball . i was ranked a 5 in 9 ball when i left. i do not recall what i started out as when i started 8 ball but do remember i was a 6.9 in 8 ball when i quit. . remember this was 10 years ago . at the time when i quit league i had a lot more important things going on in my life than thinking about pool.
that was during the time when the housing boom went bust. i lost my bussiness ...my house..even my wife over that stuff. remembering who was what on a pool league was the farthest thing from my mind at that time.

as you know bcapl lo's are free to run the local leagues how ever they wish.

 

[lorider]

.............cool...............

glad you think so.

 

[Allen Brown]

Im on a money league and a BCA 10 ball league. We only play 5 games per night on each one. The BCA league is better and the 8 ball money league does have a bunch of sandbaggers. I guess the $2,000 at the year end tournament is more important than their integrity.

 

[lorider]

last but not least ....napa league. i have been playing napa for 3 years now. it is by far the best league i have played in.

the napa lo is a guy i have known since my bcapl days...my team mate on my sun night apa league and some one i consider a good friend. a pretty good player also. just for comparison. jason kirkwood is a 152 in 8 ball....129 in 9 ball. alex olinger is a 119 in 9 ball....did not see a s/l for him in 8 ball. my lo is a 118 in 8 ball and i 105 in 9 ball...going off memory in 9 ball here. i am not saying he is in at the same level as them...just showing he knows his way around the table un like some lo's i have heard of.

when i heard about napa was going to start up i had no idea who the lo was. once i found out what the format was and the rules napa has i knew i wanted in that league. once i found out my friend was the lo it was just more incentive to join.

to me the rules in napa encompass the things i like best about apa and bcapl.

open break
jump cues
bih any where after scratch on the break
call pocket
race to your handicap format
no team handicap limit
the most spread out handicap skill levels i have ever heard of. from a 1 to.... hell i dont know what. the highest s/l i have seen so far is 152.
races go all the way up to 10-2 ....depending on the handicap spread.
easy online score keeping that automatically figure up the race for you once you enter the players names and automatically totals up the score once the match is finished.
you can also see any napa members stats on their website

around here it is mostly serious and high level players in napa with a few bangers like me sprinkled among teams....oh yea ... a few have their wives or g/f's on their teams also.

like i said i really like this league and hope it catches on . right now we have 2 divisions in memphis and 2 in north mississippi.

i am guessing more than half the players would be apa 7's ....just guessing because most of the higher level players play only napa.

most of those guys drill me in 9 ball but i can hang with them in 8 ball when i am having a good day. most of them will take the time to work with you on your game also.

my best moment in napa......actually i have 2.

1. playingg at the nationals at the southern classic in tunica where i finished higher than i thought i would.
2. finishing in 1st place in single top points last wed night session.

cant really think of a bad moment in napa...unless its when i get drilled 7-0 in 9 ball by some of those guys.

 

[lorider]

in summary i would like to say i have enjoyed playng in every league i became i member of.....yes even bcapl and money leagues although my posts above could make you think otherwise lol. i have enjoyed them all due to the simple fact i enjoy just enjoy playing pool.

although i may prefer one format vs another.....one rule vs another....bottom line is i dont mind playing by any rules as long as my opponent is also playing by those same rules.

it seems to me ...as in the case of diogennes....where he did in fact state , it is not the league itself that he dis liked . it was how it was ran and the drama that was encountered interacting with certain players.

it seems like too many of you dis like an entire league for the actions of a few.

i probably have over 200 bcapl matches. although i really did not like the round robin format and although it seemed i encountered more ego maniacs than any other league i would play bcapl again if it were ever available in this area in the future.

i probably have over 400 money league matches. again the majority of assholes and sand baggers i encountered was in these leagues i am currently playing in one now and will not let any one disuade me from playing pool just because they are an asshole.

i looked up my stats and i have over 700 matches in apa ...counting playoffs ...tri cups...ltc's which are not part of your stats on the web site. i have 685 actual matches on the website. i can count on one hand the number of negative instances during those 685 matches. not a bad percentage in my book.

i have 103 matches in napa. 1 negative incident in those 103 matches. again ...not a bad percentage.

if it was not for league

i would still be just a bar banger. still being called a hustler by those wanna be hustlers.

i would not be as good a player as i am today

i would have never taken an all day lesson with randy g

i would not have bought a custom cue

hell i probably would have never bought any of the 30 or so cues i have purchased over the years.

heck i would not even be a member of this forum if it was not for joining a league and then wanting to learn all i could

 

[lorider]

Im on a money league and a BCA 10 ball league. We only play 5 games per night on each one. The BCA league is better and the 8 ball money league does have a bunch of sandbaggers. I guess the $2,000 at the year end tournament is more important than their integrity.

my exact same sentiment a couple of years ago during play offs in a money league.

him. you did not have an observer

me. you do not have any integrity.

then all hell broke loose .

 

[mattyice]

Having played in APA, TAP, and NAPA, I'm kind of with lorider in thinking that NAPA is great and I really hope to see it continue to grow and expand in the coming years. In my area we have gone from a 6-7 team Wednesday night league to a Wednesday and Thursday league with 9-10 teams per (granted, many players play both nights) and the interest only seems to be growing. Issues with sandbagging, unruly players, or just plain assholes, etc., in my opinion stems more from wherever you are, and not necessarily from the league itself. For example, where I am, I've had rarely any bad experiences with NAPA. It's become a really close-knit community of players and as a result almost everyone has improved, which is great because the competition is even stiffer. Like myself, a lot of local players have had some issues with the TAP league (and APA to a lesser extent) and have migrated to NAPA and like it the best, so that's probably why I have such a favorable opinion of it.

In any case, I'll definitely go to bat for the merits of league play, especially for people looking to get into the game and are willing to put in the effort to improve and take it seriously beyond just being a bar game. I personally have only been playing for about 2.5 years as a dedicated league player, and in that time my game has come a really long way, and also given me the confidence to play in tournaments. NAPA did a really great thing this past year with the national Billiards Battle tour, and without that league experience I certainly would have never thought about traveling somewhere to play in a room with a bunch of people I don't know and have no idea about how my game stacks up. I mean, winning the damn thing helps a lot :wink: , but even being open to taking in that experience was a big deal and I'd tell anyone who is even halfway interested in playing in a league to give it a shot and see where it takes you.

 

[lorider]

Having played in APA, TAP, and NAPA, I'm kind of with lorider in thinking that NAPA is great and I really hope to see it continue to grow and expand in the coming years. In my area we have gone from a 6-7 team Wednesday night league to a Wednesday and Thursday league with 9-10 teams per (granted, many players play both nights) and the interest only seems to be growing. Issues with sandbagging, unruly players, or just plain assholes, etc., in my opinion stems more from wherever you are, and not necessarily from the league itself. For example, where I am, I've had rarely any bad experiences with NAPA. It's become a really close-knit community of players and as a result almost everyone has improved, which is great because the competition is even stiffer. Like myself, a lot of local players have had some issues with the TAP league (and APA to a lesser extent) and have migrated to NAPA and like it the best, so that's probably why I have such a favorable opinion of it.

In any case, I'll definitely go to bat for the merits of league play, especially for people looking to get into the game and are willing to put in the effort to improve and take it seriously beyond just being a bar game. I personally have only been playing for about 2.5 years as a dedicated league player, and in that time my game has come a really long way, and also given me the confidence to play in tournaments. NAPA did a really great thing this past year with the national Billiards Battle tour, and without that league experience I certainly would have never thought about traveling somewhere to play in a room with a bunch of people I don't know and have no idea about how my game stacks up. I mean, winning the damn thing helps a lot :wink: , but even being open to taking in that experience was a big deal and I'd tell anyone who is even halfway interested in playing in a league to give it a shot and see where it takes you.

great 1st post and i agree with you whole heartedly.

as i stated earlier. i played league for about a year and quit for 4 years.

a few months after i joined apa i qualified for the singles regionals in nashville.

being a fairly new league player i was very intimidated at my 1st big tournament and like you said ...i did not know any one there. i went 2 and out.

the following year i went back and had a lil experience under my belt. i went undefeated all the way to the finals where i lost hill -hill by rattling my last ball in the last rack.

i went to vegas last year and nothing phased me.. i played the best i ever have while i was out there. those jack and cokes i was gulping down took all the jitters away and let me play fast and loose.

shoulda had a few at the napa nationals and i would have probably finished in the money. could not risk it cause i rode my bike down there.

 

[mattyice]

great 1st post and i agree with you whole heartedly.

as i stated earlier. i played league for about a year and quit for 4 years.

a few months after i joined apa i qualified for the singles regionals in nashville.

being a fairly new league player i was very intimidated at my 1st big tournament and like you said ...i did not know any one there. i went 2 and out.

the following year i went back and had a lil experience under my belt. i went undefeated all the way to the finals where i lost hill -hill by rattling my last ball in the last rack.

i went to vegas last year and nothing phased me.. i played the best i ever have while i was out there. those jack and cokes i was gulping down took all the jitters away and let me play fast and loose.

shoulda had a few at the napa nationals and i would have probably finished in the money. could not risk it cause i rode my bike down there.

Thanks! And thanks for starting a thread I could jump right into.

That's awesome to hear that you developed that confidence and turned it into results on pretty decent-sized stages like that. It's a good feeling for sure and I definitely smiled when I overheard my LO for NAPA tell someone that I seem to play my best in tournaments. I wish I could have slammed back a few drinks to calm the nerves before the first day of play, but damned if that doesn't take my focus down completely, hahaha. One day I'll learn how to play a little buzzed, hopefully. But there were definitely several Fireball shots poured after that last 8-ball went down.

 

[cardiac kid]

Im on a money league and a BCA 10 ball league. We only play 5 games per night on each one. The BCA league is better and the 8 ball money league does have a bunch of sandbaggers. I guess the $2,000 at the year end tournament is more important than their integrity.

Allen,

Our local BCAPL league dangles a "free" trip to Vegas for the Nationals as first prize. Because of the size of the league, only the top eight teams get to play off for the prize. It is amazing how some teams who coud barely win a match during the year suddenly play like champs when the money is really on the line. Guess it's really both the teams and some individuals on the team. As long as there is a great disparity between payouts, some are always going to do what they feel is necessary to win. Just human nature I guess.

Lyn

 

[Diogenes]

although i may prefer one format vs another.....one rule vs another....bottom line is i dont mind playing by any rules as long as my opponent is also playing by those same rules.

it seems to me ...as in the case of diogennes....where he did in fact state , it is not the league itself that he dis liked . it was how it was ran and the drama that was encountered interacting with certain players.

it seems like too many of you dis like an entire league for the actions of a few.

...

i probably have over 400 money league matches. again the majority of assholes and sand baggers i encountered was in these leagues i am currently playing in one now and will not let any one disuade me from playing pool just because they are an asshole.

heck i would not even be a member of this forum if it was not for joining a league and then wanting to learn all i could

money leagues....full of sandbaggers and players who get too intense and too emotional chasing the almighty dollar.

All very fine points... and why I tried (in my thread) not to league bash so badly. I wish that it had worked out for me as it has for you. Our team actually disbanded after last season. I was given 3 different offers to join other teams this season. I turned them all down thinking that I just needed a season break (as I think most of my former team mates were also doing), so I was basically only going to take a break from league play.
But it was almost immediate that I saw my game improve exponentially afterwards. Last night I had my first off night in 7 weeks... but in comparison I shot at least as good last night as I would have on a winning night in league. It's mostly for this reason that I (sadly) decided that I likely won't return. It wasn't the BS in league that drove me away... I expect that kind of stuff when you get a mix of many people interacting. Some people can block that kind of stuff out and play through it... I realized by my sudden change in skill level, that I'm just not one of those types of people.
I do want to state to anyone reading this and believes that my way is the answer for their own league issues... don't be so quick to jump the league ship. In most cases (just not mine), the brain has to adjust to the new type of atmosphere within each league. With some people it can take a few seasons before the brain starts to ignore all of the BS and can get down to business and shoot your best game.
For me it was just like I had gone almost blind or brain damaged while I was part of league... when I saw my game come back so strong afterwards... it was kind of like having someone you love come back from the dead or being blind for a very long time and suddenly regaining your sight.
You're so right about "the actions of a few". It is only a few. The people that I play against now are mostly some of the same ones that I shot against in league. Many have become my friends and they are good people. Only now when they aren't saying so out loud, you can see it in their faces when we play... "This is not the same person that I played against in league".

Ironically you stated "heck i would not even be a member of this forum if it was not for joining a league". In my case it was the exact opposite. I would not have joined a league if I hadn't become a member of this forum.
If I had more time left on this earth I would probably give league another try down the road... just not UPA under the current LO. But for me time is fleeting... tempus fugit. So all I can do is savor what I have left while I still have it. There's much that I'll miss about league play but...

 

[Donny Lutz]

League play

diogennes thread about regaining his focus after quiting league and several replies from others got me to thinking about my own experience.

WARNING !... LONG AND RAMBLING POST AHEAD !

i began playing pool as a teenageer with my step father and his father in law. i wound up being better than them which aint saying much. soon after i started playing in bars every fri and sat night. after a few years i quit for about 30 due to the marriage...kids...other interests such as soft ball and raquet ball.

fast forward to about 10 years ago. kids grown...wife left...started hitting bars and playing pool every fri and sat night again. one night after about 6 months back playing i played a guy named jeff who after i won about 4 in a row off of asked me what league i played in.

me...dont play league...i never have.

jeff...why not ?

me...i never thought i was good enough.

jeff... heck ..you are better than any body on my team.. show up at high pockets sun night and join my team

well i showed up sun night and he introduced me to his captain...tim. .tim proceeds to grill me with...what leagues have you played ...whats your handiicap...yada yada yada.

i said i have never played league. tim looks at jeff with a wtf? look on his face. jeff ..upon seeing tims puzzled look says....this guy is pretty damn good. then tim asks me ...can you make a straight in shot ? i say yea...more often than not but since i aint exactly a pro i have been known to miss an easy shot once in a while. well tim says...i think i will keep my team as it is.

jeff starts apologizing to me and says let me introduce you to the lo. the lo says i have a team looking for a player. hie introduces me to bruce. so i tell bruce i will join his team.

when bruce tells me itsa bcapl 9 ball league i want to turn tail and run. being a bar rule guy for years i hated 9 ball due to the slop factor. but being a man of my word i stuck it out. hatwed the round robin format also. i would have rathered played a set like i saw the pros do on tv.i became receptive after a while because ...hey its pool :grin-square: a few weeks later my team faces tims team. after the match was over tim comes up to me and says...damn ..if i knew you was that good i would have taken you....you can join my team next session if you want. i say ...no thanks i am ok with the team i am on.

several weeks later the lo approaches me and asks if i would be interested in an 8 ball league also. i said heck yea ! ::grin:

i show up wed night and the lo introduces me to the captain. the captain...randy upon learning i have never played bcapl 8 ball starts telling me the rules.

1. open break. well.... ok... its easier to run out.
2. bih after a foul. yea i learned that in 9 ball.
3.round robin....wtf ? why dont you play a race like real pool ?
4. call your shot...yea this bar rule player likes that rule.:grin:
5. points based....you get a point for every ball of your suit that is down....whether you made it or not. again ...wtf ? oh well... i am gonna try to be the first one to pot the 8 ball like i always do ....dont matter about the points to me.

our 8 ball team had the best player in league on it. i tried to learn from watching him.i also tried to have him give me time outs. after a few times i called time out and he was always giving me the " wtf" you bothering me for look " i quit asking him.

during the following year i also joined a traveling money league and and in house league on 9 footers. so i wound up playing 4 nights a week cause every one was asking me to join their team and i just loved to play pool.

a year goes by and life threw me a couple of curve balls and turned my life us side down. as a result i quit pool entirely for 4 years.

me best memory in bcapl . being chosen to play twice one night in my 8 ball league because we were short handed. as a result i played 10 matches the night instead of the normal 5 and won 9 of them

my worst memory in bcapl. we are in the finals for a trip to vegas. last match and we are up a few points. we have 2 players left...me and the captain.. the captain throws himself and promptly gets his butt handed to him and we lose.

aeveral members of the team get pissed and quit. they said he never should have thrown himself ...being a 3 when we had me ...a 5 available to go against their 4.

in summary....my opinion ...based on my own experience of course..

money leagues....full of sandbaggers and players who get too intense and too emotional chasing the almighty dollar.

bcapl.... i saw in person the same as i read on here. its full of people who are self centered and look down their nose at new players. funny thing is i was just as good a shot maker as most of them.. once i started embracing defense and learning some semblance of cue ball control the better players were a little more amicable towards me.its strange how most had a " why should i teach you any thing so you can beat me " attitude.

to be continued.......:smile:

The half a million plus folks who currently play in pool leagues in the US might disagree.

Pool leagues certainly have their problems, but that has a lot to do with how the league system is structured and how the league operator does his/her job.

I've won a few singles events and cashed high in nationals, but the most fun I had was playing on championship teams, and partying afterwards.