my opinion of tap lague...so far

Lots of changes in TAP since some of you played

I am sorry I didn't get back on here. I been busy setting up the hotel with 17 tables for our national playoffs and Summer Titleholder the next 2 weekends but I got some time this morning to address some of what you guys posted and asked questions about.

1. TAP stands for The Association for POOL..(TAP) We pretty much got away from that and just go by TAP these days.

2. Score Keeping? It's not a pain like other leagues with TAP. We are the only league that has a score keeping app built into our handicapping system. Players simply keep score on their smartphones or tablets and submit it in. The L. Op. goes into their device, checks it out and submits it and its updated in seconds. I have submitted scores while at a host location and its gets updated before they left the building. Can the APA, NAPA, BCA or any other league claim to do this? I think not. It will also give you players and teams stats as well as a function to look up other player's stats and records. Below are a few examples. There is much more to the app but I don't want to bog this thread down. In it there are bar graphs as you can see as well as pie charts and other ways to look at your stats.And it is all simply touch screen scoring and the app is free! For example, my Spring session I had about 500 scores come in for the 16 weeks. I manually inputted maybe 5 score sheets in by hand. Players love the app. I call it crack cocaine for score keeping. Once players use it they do not want to go back to pen and paper. While other leagues use trick shots artists and lady pros to promote their leagues, TAP puts our money back into the tech side so of it for a better player experience. There is no more sending score sheets in by mail or fax or even emails. In fact, I disconnected my fax line last January and the fax machine is in storage.

3. Titleholders? Yes this is a way to play for the money at the end of the session. Other leagues do it with city cups, tri annuals, etc. It's the players money and it should be played for.

4. TAP was founded by Loyd Schonter in 1989. He unexpectedly died on December 31, 2013 of a massive heart attack. His family (who were working in the office with Loyd) took up the ownership and have carried on. TAP is not some big corporation with faceless people running it. The Schonter family is very easy to get in touch with and in fact on Poolnet there is a help desk that Chuck Schonter mans 5 days a week from 9 to 5 est. As Loyd always said.."Built by a player and for the player" and the Schonter family has been trying to hold to these standards that their brother Loyd set.

5. And Lorider, I am happy you posted your pros and cons about TAP. We like to hear and address the players concerns. How else are we going to be able to improve things if we don't get player feedback?

6. As in any new leagues there will be growing pains for the operators learning the system as well as the players. I been doing it over 20 years and it is not a easy job dealing with hundreds of players all trying to win. But I will say this. TAP has added over 12,000 new members since the first of the year and this isn't counting all the new players coming in for the Fall sessions. I do all the sales for TAP in the U.S. and I added 12 new licensees since April. That's an average of one every two weeks. Practically everyone coming to TAP was a ex APA player. What's that tell you? It tells me a lot. Any other questions, feel free to ask. I will be very busy the next two weeks with my events here in Western Pa. (the largest pool events of any league in Western Pa.) but I will try to keep up on any that you ask. TAP ON!
 

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I am sorry I didn't get back on here. I been busy setting up the hotel with 17 tables for our national playoffs and Summer Titleholder the next 2 weekends but I got some time this morning to address some of what you guys posted and asked questions about.

1. TAP stands for The Association for POOL..(TAP) We pretty much got away from that and just go by TAP these days.

2. Score Keeping? It's not a pain like other leagues with TAP. We are the only league that has a score keeping app built into our handicapping system. Players simply keep score on their smartphones or tablets and submit it in. The L. Op. goes into their device, checks it out and submits it and its updated in seconds. I have submitted scores while at a host location and its gets updated before they left the building. Can the APA, NAPA, BCA or any other league claim to do this? I think not. It will also give you players and teams stats as well as a function to look up other player's stats and records. Below are a few examples. There is much more to the app but I don't want to bog this thread down. In it there are bar graphs as you can see as well as pie charts and other ways to look at your stats.And it is all simply touch screen scoring and the app is free! For example, my Spring session I had about 500 scores come in for the 16 weeks. I manually inputted maybe 5 score sheets in by hand. Players love the app. I call it crack cocaine for score keeping. Once players use it they do not want to go back to pen and paper. While other leagues use trick shots artists and lady pros to promote their leagues, TAP puts our money back into the tech side so of it for a better player experience. There is no more sending score sheets in by mail or fax or even emails. In fact, I disconnected my fax line last January and the fax machine is in storage.

3. Titleholders? Yes this is a way to play for the money at the end of the session. Other leagues do it with city cups, tri annuals, etc. It's the players money and it should be played for.

4. TAP was founded by Loyd Schonter in 1989. He unexpectedly died on December 31, 2013 of a massive heart attack. His family (who were working in the office with Loyd) took up the ownership and have carried on. TAP is not some big corporation with faceless people running it. The Schonter family is very easy to get in touch with and in fact on Poolnet there is a help desk that Chuck Schonter mans 5 days a week from 9 to 5 est. As Loyd always said.."Built by a player and for the player" and the Schonter family has been trying to hold to these standards that their brother Loyd set.

5. And Lorider, I am happy you posted your pros and cons about TAP. We like to hear and address the players concerns. How else are we going to be able to improve things if we don't get player feedback?

6. As in any new leagues there will be growing pains for the operators learning the system as well as the players. I been doing it over 20 years and it is not a easy job dealing with hundreds of players all trying to win. But I will say this. TAP has added over 12,000 new members since the first of the year and this isn't counting all the new players coming in for the Fall sessions. I do all the sales for TAP in the U.S. and I added 12 new licensees since April. That's a average of one every two weeks. Practically everyone coming to TAP was a ex APA player. What's that tell you? It tells me a lot. Any other questions, feel free to ask but I will be very busy the next two weeks with my events here in Western Pa. TAP ON!

Of course all of your members are from the APA...LOL
When I was part of the TAP league was was basically built with ex APA members, league operators coordinators, etc.
It was sold as being similar to the APA except for that it was a money league.
The TAP handicaps were based on a players APA handicap.
The league operators specifically targeted APA members, and because of the money aspect, teams left the APA for the money that never came.

I'm sure that TAP has put things better now than in 2004 but a couple of years ago I watched a guy who is a known player, won many BCA and VNEA championships, get into TAP just to play in the end of the session TAP tournament, and he looked like he was having a great time beating up on all the B players.
The league operator was his buddy and let him do it.
I don't care for the apa but they would never allow that to happen.
 
I am sorry I didn't get back on here. I been busy setting up the hotel with 17 tables for our national playoffs and Summer Titleholder the next 2 weekends but I got some time this morning to address some of what you guys posted and asked questions about.

1. TAP stands for The Association for POOL..(TAP) We pretty much got away from that and just go by TAP these days.

2. Score Keeping? It's not a pain like other leagues with TAP. We are the only league that has a score keeping app built into our handicapping system. Players simply keep score on their smartphones or tablets and submit it in. The L. Op. goes into their device, checks it out and submits it and its updated in seconds. I have submitted scores while at a host location and its gets updated before they left the building. Can the APA, NAPA, BCA or any other league claim to do this? I think not. [...]

Sounds like you guys have a good system and you're proud of it.
I just want to point out with respect to item (2) that USAPL also has a mobile scoring app directly tied to FargoRate database.
Once the games go in the ratings are updated in the next optimization.
 

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Sounds like you guys have a good system and you're proud of it.
I just want to point out with respect to item (2) that USAPL also has a mobile scoring app directly tied to FargoRate database.
Once the games go in the ratings are updated in the next optimization.


I'd love to see TAP start doing this as well.

My unestablished FargoRate is only 592 :sad:
 
Tap app

If so I don't think it even compares to what the TAP the App does. Not even close. And yes we are very proud of it and are just beginning to put the neat stuff in. The bells and whistles so to speak. In reality the BCA and TAP really don't compete against each other anyway. But I will say this. And I am not bashing but I heard of some major issues at your nationals this year. One of our TAP refs played there and said it was more or less a mess. Many disgruntled players that said they were not going back. Like I said, we really don't compete so it doesn't matter to TAP one way or the other. Just stating what was told to me.
 
Response to Cues Blues

Not sure who this op was but TAP has rules in place for players not jumping on a team towards the end of a session. They need a minimum amount of matches in on a team to play at a higher level event. As in any company or organization, there are people that do not follow the rules. Even in the other leagues. These ops usually do not last long with us. I am guessing this guy is probably no longer a op with TAP. You can PM me and give me his name if you like. I would like to know. But in his defense there are always players trying to point a finger as well.
 
Sounds like you guys have a good system and you're proud of it.
I just want to point out with respect to item (2) that USAPL also has a mobile scoring app directly tied to FargoRate database.
Once the games go in the ratings are updated in the next optimization.


I wish all the leagues would use Fargo Ratings... or at least use them to adjust their own metrics. I'm not sure anyone's rating system is perfect. More information is ALWAYS better.
 
Tap caps

TAP is fine with using our system. It works very well. A perfect example. I have held 9 or 10 Titleholders over the past 3 years with 500 or more players and only had to DQ two players in this time. At our Rally at the SBE with 208 eight ball teams only 5 players were DQed. TAP'S system is perfect for TAP. Sorry but I'll stick with TAP's PoolNet over any capping system out. Especially the famous "Equalizer" system.

FYI...As you can see in my examples earlier...We keep track of balls made on the break MOB, balls left on the table LOT, completions..COMP...misses, Defense DEF, Early 8's, 8 on the breaks, dead balls, etc. Much more data goes in which gives us a very good picture of a player's skill level. TAP ON!
 
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FYI...As you can see in my examples earlier...We keep track of balls made on the break MOB, balls left on the table LOT, completions..COMP...misses, Defense DEF, Early 8's, 8 on the breaks, dead balls, etc. Much more data goes in which gives us a very good picture of a player's skill level. TAP ON!

I do like the fact you guys keep track of everything that happens. I think it should all figure in to Rankings.
 
If so I don't think it even compares to what the TAP the App does. Not even close. And yes we are very proud of it and are just beginning to put the neat stuff in. The bells and whistles so to speak. In reality the BCA and TAP really don't compete against each other anyway. But I will say this. And I am not bashing but I heard of some major issues at your nationals this year. One of our TAP refs played there and said it was more or less a mess. Many disgruntled players that said they were not going back. Like I said, we really don't compete so it doesn't matter to TAP one way or the other. Just stating what was told to me.

Whoa... Did not expect this sort of response.
 
Sorry

Sorry not bashing. Just letting you know what came back to me. One of our licensees was there with her husband and relayed this to me. Seems there were a lot of unhappy campers there. Just saying. Like I said, we don't really compete with them so it really doesn't affect us either way.
 
TAP the App vs Fargo Rate

From what i know and gather, Fargo Rate is wins and losses vs the rate of the opponent you win against. No one has a handicap system via a data base system along with a bracket system that is tied together. BCA uses a third party system which is Compu Sport to do this. I believe the APA uses this or did use Compu Sport as well. TAP does need to go to a 3rd party to do this. TAP's PoolNet and the TAP the App system are tied in together as one. No one else, not, BCA, APA, NAPA or any other league has these capabilities. Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
From what i know and gather, Fargo Rate is wins and losses vs the rate of the opponent you win against.

That is correct.

No one has a handicap system via a data base system along with a bracket system that is tied together. BCA uses a third party system which is Compu Sport to do this.

This is not correct. I'm quite sure BCAPL has never used Compusport and also that CSI's CTSondemand does what you say here. The bracket system is tied directly to the database with ratings and computes handicaps on the fly, etc.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Why the antagonism?
 
Coming from the largest franchise in APA to TAP I can definately say I enjoy TAP much more. There are less people banging ball around to build up innings so they don't go up and have to break up the team. The 25 point rule is so much nicer than the 23 rule. There also seems to be less of a team dumping 2 nights a week to manipulate handicap and winning the third. Players from our small league went to Valley Forge and said that the handicaps were competitive and they didn't see anyone over or under rated. I will be in Vegas with my team for Dream Team, Doubles and Singles so I will be able to see first hand. The handicapping seems to rate how you shoot more heavily than who you shoot which always sucked in small APA leagues. Nothing like being a big fish in a raindrop of a puddle to run you up in APA. I will probably be dropping both 9 ball in APA to only shoot in tap league next session. It seems like you have players that want to win or be beaten in TAP as opposed to people trying to lose or keep it close in APA. The exception being drunks and bar bangers who think its great to try a 5 rail kick shot instead of a defence. Whoops sorry rant... I like TAP.
 
Yea Mike, Im originally from Hollsopple but now live just outside of Shanksville, Pa. I know all the guys you mentioned and been running TAP leagues here for 20+ years now. I also helped start the old Johnstown pool league as well. Maybe I know you from the old MT Pocket days in the old Richland Mall. I won a ton of tournaments there back in the early to mid 90's. Its funny as I was posting this, Jason called me about times for this weekends events and I asked him about you. Also, we just got a guy in your area that plans on going gangbusters in North Carolina. His name is Calvin Preston. His number is 919-912-8675 and you can Facebook him at Coastal Carolina TAP. He started up in the Charlotte area and plans on expanding this Fall in your area.

Thanks for the info Sam. I will have to get a hold of Calvin and check it out.
 
sorry is i came off that way

Not trying to antagonize anyone and sorry if it appeared that way. Maybe its because I get a little defensive on forums like this from past experience. All I am saying I dont think anyone has anything what TAP has in the area of score keeping, especially the APA .


That is correct.



This is not correct. I'm quite sure BCAPL has never used Compusport and also that CSI's CTSondemand does what you say here. The bracket system is tied directly to the database with ratings and computes handicaps on the fly, etc.



Why the antagonism?
 
Coming from the largest franchise in APA to TAP I can definately say I enjoy TAP much more. There are less people banging ball around to build up innings so they don't go up and have to break up the team. The 25 point rule is so much nicer than the 23 rule. There also seems to be less of a team dumping 2 nights a week to manipulate handicap and winning the third. Players from our small league went to Valley Forge and said that the handicaps were competitive and they didn't see anyone over or under rated. I will be in Vegas with my team for Dream Team, Doubles and Singles so I will be able to see first hand. The handicapping seems to rate how you shoot more heavily than who you shoot which always sucked in small APA leagues. Nothing like being a big fish in a raindrop of a puddle to run you up in APA. I will probably be dropping both 9 ball in APA to only shoot in tap league next session. It seems like you have players that want to win or be beaten in TAP as opposed to people trying to lose or keep it close in APA. The exception being drunks and bar bangers who think its great to try a 5 rail kick shot instead of a defence. Whoops sorry rant... I like TAP.

I would second the TAP handicapping being fair from what I saw in my local TAP league the two or three sessions I played in one. I think there were maybe a couple of players I thought were too low and one that was too high out of 30+ people we must have faced, and I can't even say that they were too low on purpose, maybe they were just very uneven players or played bad on 9' tables so went up and down in wins/looses a lot.
 
I would like to thank every one for their opinion and the reply's about how to check my stats.

Didn't mean for it to wind up ...mine is better than yours and thankfully it kinda calmed down. :D

I enjoyed my first session and wish I had not missed as many weeks as I did. Like I said in my op...its a change of pace from apa but I will not be quitting apa for tap or any other league. As I also stated in earlier...i joined usapl also which will be starting next week.

Although I defend apa on here quite often I dont think its better than any other league....or worse either. :grin-square:

I just enjoy playing pool and have no problem playing any league just as i have no problem playing on any type or size table. Pool is pool and some people just get hung up on its gotta be these rules and those tables . I just dont see how those type players ever have any fun playing pool....after all its just a game . :grin-square:
 
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