My Rant "Put Up and Shut Up"
- Thread starter Dave in Boston
- Start date
OldHasBeen said:
Hey! Don't go dragging down Badminton with Pool!
Seriously, I think that Joe Six-Pack would find badminton way more entertaining to watch than pool if he flipped by both on ESPN. Badminton at the highest levels is a hard damn sport, just like ping-pong. It bears no relation to the stuff that you play in the backyard at BBQs.
I think that the major reason that nobody will stop flipping when they see pool is that there isn't enough action for an american audience. There isn't the blood of football or hockey, or the speed and potential for death of NASCAR. It makes perfect sense. Even with golf (which I personally don't understand watching) there are enough people out there who do play and think that "If I was just a little better" that it could be them. Pool has a steep learning curve, and it discourages a lot of people from playing.
(What doesn't make any sense is why anybody watches 9 overpayed "athletes" stand in a field for 3 hours scratching their butts and waiting for somebody else to hit a ball with a stick.)
Oh how many times have I seen this topic or a variation thereof? Probably too many times to count. Money in sports is based on supply vs demand. If the demand is not high, then the supply =$$$ will remain low. So stop thinking like pool players and start thinking like the business people who own the cheese 
There is this thing called 'marketing'. That is who gets the cheese. The one who grabs the market first. Think about computers, for instance. Word Perfect processing was a much better program than MS Word, but Bill Gates was better at marketing and stole nearly the entire market. Now that Microsoft has such a huge percent of the market, many companies have tried and failed to break into that market.
Now to sports. Baseball, Football, Golf, poker etc. have the market. Breaking in with another sport would be exceptionally difficult from a business perspective. Change the image in pool, switch to another game besides 9-ball or stand on your heads. Unless you have some kind of majic card up your sleeve, it is not going to happen.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Laura
There is this thing called 'marketing'. That is who gets the cheese. The one who grabs the market first. Think about computers, for instance. Word Perfect processing was a much better program than MS Word, but Bill Gates was better at marketing and stole nearly the entire market. Now that Microsoft has such a huge percent of the market, many companies have tried and failed to break into that market.
Now to sports. Baseball, Football, Golf, poker etc. have the market. Breaking in with another sport would be exceptionally difficult from a business perspective. Change the image in pool, switch to another game besides 9-ball or stand on your heads. Unless you have some kind of majic card up your sleeve, it is not going to happen.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
Laura
Dave in Boston said:
You can't compare pool to poker for one simple reason - skill. To become a top pool player you have to prctice for 10-15 years. And tell me how many people are willing to do that?
In poker I myself become city champion within 2 months from the day I started to play.
There are milions of people playing poker and you only need 10% of skill to win. In pool you need 90% of skill.
Other thing is, that for average person (not a pool player) pool is boring to watch, thats why nobody is willing to put their money into it.
Poker is much more entertaining for a average person. TV shows 4 times more poker than pool.
The money in pool are for elite players that have dedicated their lives to get to the top and not much will change in that matter.
As for tournaments versus gambling its simple to: when you gambling you can loose set or two, but you can get it back. In a tournament you loose 2 sets and you out.
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Back when I worked in a few pool rooms in Pa., I was amazed that my idols (Allen Hopkins, Mike Sigel, Danny Barrouti, Florida Bob Maidhoff) were coming out, playing for 2 days, putting in world class performances, and going home with $1500 bucks or whatever! I always said, hell, I'd put up $2000 and have them over my house, serve the best food and drinks and play em all for 2 days myself! ....Gerry
....Gerrydrivermaker
Banned
DaveK said:
How does a Canadian know this?? You are correct. If you attempt to qualify for the US Open it is $125 and should remain that way through 2006. If you DO qualify either as an amateur or pro (many PGA pros are NOT EXEMPT and must also go through a qualifier) there are no additional fees. However, initial qualifiers are held all throughout the country and there are thousands of entrants.
Pool tournaments are more similar to tennis tournaments imo. Tennis pros in the main draw pay no entry fee and have free room and board for the duration of the tournament, as far as I understand. They also make about 10,000 for losing in the first round of the U.S. Open. They have a player run organization that came about when they revolted against the IBM run tour years ago.Dave in Boston said:
But I do believe the future of pool depends on involving larger numbers of players, similar to the poker world. Unfortunately the pool organizations struggle to get enough money to support 32 players, and the top players live off the lower players from their entry fees because the added money is not enough.
Entry fees should be zero. That would have everyone competing for the spots, enable all the regional tours to become qualifying events, and maybe involve enough people to actually get something going.
unknownpro
unknownpro said:
Great idea. As an economist, I agree that entry fees at zero would attract most players, every tour would be a qualifying event, and there may be many poeple involved, enough actually to get something going. I just don't see how any money comes in to pay such unknown pros, or even amatuers or tournament directors for that matter. Why bother?
Players -vs- Org's.
One thing we have to remember...Players are Players, they can only show their talent through the available outlets...this goes directly back to organization...ALL major sports have mechanisms for grooming...baseball, football, etc., are not going to run out of viable Players...why?...there are not 15 groups attempting to drive and make money off of Players patricipation.
Someone spoke of Player revolt in the tennis world...maybe thats what Pool needs, a Revolution! Even though the Players are not making a living on Pool, someone is...if the players unite and say I'm not joining your Org., and I'm not playing in your Tournament unless, (insert demands here), someone will be losing $$$...let's face it, Brunswick, Olhausen, Simonis, Aramith etc...are not making $$$ off of Pro's, they're making $$$ off of 'Us', and the poor souls that love this game enough to open rooms and buy 20 tables etc...
What's the answer?, good question, but whatever it is will have to start with Players...
my 2c-
One thing we have to remember...Players are Players, they can only show their talent through the available outlets...this goes directly back to organization...ALL major sports have mechanisms for grooming...baseball, football, etc., are not going to run out of viable Players...why?...there are not 15 groups attempting to drive and make money off of Players patricipation.
Someone spoke of Player revolt in the tennis world...maybe thats what Pool needs, a Revolution! Even though the Players are not making a living on Pool, someone is...if the players unite and say I'm not joining your Org., and I'm not playing in your Tournament unless, (insert demands here), someone will be losing $$$...let's face it, Brunswick, Olhausen, Simonis, Aramith etc...are not making $$$ off of Pro's, they're making $$$ off of 'Us', and the poor souls that love this game enough to open rooms and buy 20 tables etc...
What's the answer?, good question, but whatever it is will have to start with Players...
my 2c-
OldHasBeen said:
I dont know why people beleive this, the facts simply dont back it up? Or are you talking just about Americans in particular? I mean as has been discussed many times Snooker is very popular in Europe and the far east. Snooker holds one of the highest TV ratings ever in the UK and often gets MORE veiwers than GOLF, also 100 MILLION, yes thats right 100 MILLION people watched Ding win a snooker even in China recently.
Also 9 ball is extreemly popular on TV in Asia, I've spent about 5 months in Asia this year alone and I seem to recall it was on for several hours almost daily on a number of the main sports channels. The WPC of course got blanket coverage in Asia and the UK.
Why do people think billiards isn't a TV sport, it amazes me? I mean grandmas watch snooker in the UK, some even take their knitting to the live events LOL! Do you really think snooker is easier to understand or more interesting or differs that much at all from Snooker?
I still beleive its lack of money and lack of leadership, pool is a rudderless(sp?) ship!
People don't want cleaned-up pool
I believe as you do that they should stop trying to "clean up" the image of pool and instead focus on the gambling. That's what will fire up the public imagination in the end. I do believe that sponsors putting up large sums of cash is just around the corner. It's been a long time coming, but it will be worth the wait.
Njhustler1 said:
I believe as you do that they should stop trying to "clean up" the image of pool and instead focus on the gambling. That's what will fire up the public imagination in the end. I do believe that sponsors putting up large sums of cash is just around the corner. It's been a long time coming, but it will be worth the wait.
O
onepocketchump
Guest
onepocketchump said:
Well, don't I feel like a dumbass? I go back up to the original post and see that there are already t-shirts with that logo www.pooltees.com
I thought it was just a clever spin on the thread topic.
Somebody could have mentioned it.......
John
Jimmy M. said:
Lots of celebrity players, "top seeded players" pay nothing & they are paid to show up. Golf is a totally different animal than pool. The backbone of Golf is the "country club scene", which has a limitless pit of money & wealthy people that will pay the ticket, to see the "great gods of golf". The fans buy every new golf club that hits the street, so their game might improve like some pro said his game did. The fans buy the high priced clothes & the $300 shoes, just hoping to look & feel like the pros. They pay to attend parties & they take lessons, if for nothing less than just to be seen or spend time with a pro.
Pool players do nothing of the above & pool players are not a connected membership, continually striving to elevate the sport & the players. Pool players seek a $5000 score, instead of a $5,000,000 score for several players.
The great game of Billiards or Pocket Billiards is looked upon as a BACK STREET HUSTLE, not the fine game of accomplishment that it is. The pool rooms are a reflection of the game's image. While there are a few upscale rooms, where wealthy people might like to congregate, they are in the minority. Most pool rooms are dirty places of business.
Every MAJOR sport has dress codes (some are uniforms) & the fans identify with their chosen team or player, by weasring hats or shirts. Pool has ripped jeans, tennis shoes, t-shirts & the fans don't identify with any of their HEROES. Hell the HEROES don't have clothing lines....
NASCAR is like watching paint dry, unless there is a wreck. However, NASCAR is in your face, everywhere you go, so is the NFL, NHL & other major sports. Do you ever see any pool players wearing a POOL HERO'S cap or shirt...
Ha!Ha!Ha! I could go on & on & on.
People buy maps to get to a destination. Entreprenuers develop a business plan to become successful. The map to a successful wealthy sport takes coordination of the directors & the talented players... we have nothing like that in place.
drivermaker
Banned
sizl said:Have you ever tried to qualify DM? I used to caddy a little bit, if you ever get ready to give it a run, you let me know and I will be honored to carry your bag. GOLF bag that is
I've never tried to qualify because I despise what the USGA does in their setup to a golf course. I know, I know...it's the national championship and it's set up the same way for every one. But even a number of PGA Tour pro players haven't played or attempted to play in it for that reason.
That having been said...I am thinking about trying to qualify for the senior US Open either next year or the one after before I get too old to hit the ball worth a damn any more. It all depends on what is happening next summer with a house that I'm trying to have built and what stage things are in with a move. Thanks for the offer.
Pool and problems in the game
I have said the following things before and I will say them again. You dont have to agree with what I say, but it is something to think about.
Reasons why Pool does not generate high Revenue:
1. To the average person: POOL IS BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! My wife is a prime example: she is an athletic person who loves games and she plays pretty decent pool. But, she says she would rather watch paint dry than watch pool. She cringes every time I watch a match on TV.
2. To the average person: POOL IS EASY!!!!!!!!!!!! The common person doesnt see the challenge in pool. To be honest, pool is a fairly simple game. I have played just about every game out there. Played some semi pro baseball even, and pool cannot compare to hitting 95 mph baseball and it is not nearly exciting.
3. To the average person: POOL IS WHAT BUMS PLAY!!!!!!! That is still a common misconception amongst a lot of the general public whether we as pool players want to admit it or not.
4. To the average person: WHO THE HELL IS EFREN REYES? Pool has no major drawing characters. I once asked my students who are 16-18 yrs old who Efren Reyes was.....none of them knew.
5. To the average person: I DONT WANT MY KIDS AT THE POOL ROOM!!!!! A common sentiment amongst the general public. Gambling, drugs, and alcoholism is associated to the concept of a pool room.
*Games like Poker is exciting because of psychological reasons. Lots of luck involved, the idea that anyone can win, they have flambouent characters, ect... Pool has little psychological draw for the average person.
Other games that take similar skill face the same drawbacks as pool such as Ping Pong, Raquetball, Badmitton, Curling, Fencing, and even some track events. No money for these things because the general population simply doesnt care about them. These are professional sports but who cares....when was the last badmitton tournament you watched was...my point exactly.
Pool has a leg up on these other sports because pool is readily played by the general population so there is hope. But the general population plays chess, checkers, scrabble ect... I am a hell of a scrabble player and love it! But I could care less about watching it.
There is HOPE for pool but there is no quick fix....it is a long process and MAJOR CHANGES MUST TAKE PLACE.
Pool players like us simply don't want to face the reality of the situation. Perhaps we are blinded to the fact that pool is a very person specific game and simply doesnt draw well to the general population. I think that we want more than our game can give us. I have heard some people say that they honestly believe that POOL will be as big as GOLF someday. Anyone who believes this is living in a fantasy land. I love the game but you have to be realisitic about it.
I have said the following things before and I will say them again. You dont have to agree with what I say, but it is something to think about.
Reasons why Pool does not generate high Revenue:
1. To the average person: POOL IS BORING!!!!!!!!!!!! My wife is a prime example: she is an athletic person who loves games and she plays pretty decent pool. But, she says she would rather watch paint dry than watch pool. She cringes every time I watch a match on TV.
2. To the average person: POOL IS EASY!!!!!!!!!!!! The common person doesnt see the challenge in pool. To be honest, pool is a fairly simple game. I have played just about every game out there. Played some semi pro baseball even, and pool cannot compare to hitting 95 mph baseball and it is not nearly exciting.
3. To the average person: POOL IS WHAT BUMS PLAY!!!!!!! That is still a common misconception amongst a lot of the general public whether we as pool players want to admit it or not.
4. To the average person: WHO THE HELL IS EFREN REYES? Pool has no major drawing characters. I once asked my students who are 16-18 yrs old who Efren Reyes was.....none of them knew.
5. To the average person: I DONT WANT MY KIDS AT THE POOL ROOM!!!!! A common sentiment amongst the general public. Gambling, drugs, and alcoholism is associated to the concept of a pool room.
*Games like Poker is exciting because of psychological reasons. Lots of luck involved, the idea that anyone can win, they have flambouent characters, ect... Pool has little psychological draw for the average person.
Other games that take similar skill face the same drawbacks as pool such as Ping Pong, Raquetball, Badmitton, Curling, Fencing, and even some track events. No money for these things because the general population simply doesnt care about them. These are professional sports but who cares....when was the last badmitton tournament you watched was...my point exactly.
Pool has a leg up on these other sports because pool is readily played by the general population so there is hope. But the general population plays chess, checkers, scrabble ect... I am a hell of a scrabble player and love it! But I could care less about watching it.
There is HOPE for pool but there is no quick fix....it is a long process and MAJOR CHANGES MUST TAKE PLACE.
Pool players like us simply don't want to face the reality of the situation. Perhaps we are blinded to the fact that pool is a very person specific game and simply doesnt draw well to the general population. I think that we want more than our game can give us. I have heard some people say that they honestly believe that POOL will be as big as GOLF someday. Anyone who believes this is living in a fantasy land. I love the game but you have to be realisitic about it.