My reputation is proceeding me: I need MORE advice on how pros would do these pockets

[tjlmbklr]

My reputation is preceeding me: I need MORE advice on how pros would do these pockets

Most of you that frequent this section know my story. If not the short version is I did a table restore project (just a DIY guy) and although did really good on a lot of it, I screwed up and put my rail rubber on upside down. HERE is that post and HERE is me when I realized the kicks/banks were playing long. It was shortly after some helpful users here noticed what this issue may be.

So with all that said I sourced some replacement rubber and rail cloth and am going to redo my rails. I previously went a little tight on the pockets using 3/8" 50A facings because I was not aware they were on the tighter side because I didn't check them when i disassembled it at the place I bought it from. They play great, but TIGHT at 4". Ideally 4.25-4.5 with the 141° angles is preferred.

So my long winded approach to my question is; would you extend the subs with 1/4" or 3/16" wood and use standard 3.2mm 70A facings or keep them as is and use 1/4" 60A facings like Diamond does (this is the way I'm leaning). This will make my pockets in a more acceptable size range. My dilemma is my aftermarket pockets I bought don't hide the cloth very well and being of little experience I am not sure the best way to hide my staples. If I extend the rails with wood at least I have something to staple to but the pockets will still have a hard time hiding them.

See pics and let me know your thoughts.

 

[bradsh98]

I almost always use 60A facings. I would recommend that you use 1/4" 60A neoprene, which is easy to source from Amazon.

Also, when you install the facings: instead of cutting them flush with the end of the rail, extend them back further, so that they are flush with the backside of the featherstrip dado. This will make it MUCH easier to hide your staples, and will create a much cleaner look.

Also, if you haven't yet, you should purchase the Simonis Installation DVD set from Seyberts.com

As always, please feel free to reach out for additional support.

 

[tjlmbklr]

I almost always use 60A facings. I would recommend that you use 1/4" 60A neoprene, which is easy to source from Amazon.

Also, when you install the facings: instead of cutting them flush with the end of the rail, extend them back further, so that they are flush with the backside of the featherstrip dado. This will make it MUCH easier to hide your staples, and will create a much cleaner look.

Also, if you haven't yet, you should purchase the Simonis Installation DVD set from Seyberts.com

As always, please feel free to reach out for additional support.

I have considered that video but couldn't justify the cost for just myself since the table has been a bit of a money pit already. There is a plethora of resources on YouTube and the web in general that are pretty good, I just need to adapt it in being able to do it with the thick facings, this is my issue. Sometimes I wish I could shadow a true mechanic for a day. That's how I learn the best, hands on and in person.

With that said what you are suggesting with my facings is not correct now (see pic)? My pic shows how much they overlapped the featherstrip grove and how much the pocket helps to hide. The yellow lines are the only other way I see being able to do them. My thought is if I extend the subrails out with thin plywood (or any wood really) and then go back to a traditional facings I can then staple to the backside of that wood.

Only issue is, if I can source out thin wood like 3/16" and I go a 1/4" facing, I am basically the same tightness on my pockets. I realize now, that 4" pockets are a little to snug. If I go to a traditional thinner facing like 1/8" (or 3.2mm). I can then open them up a touch and I gain the ability to staple to the extended rail to better hide my staples. Right? I also attached a pic of my old Olhausen that had the subrails extended by LCCS from here on AZB like 12+ years ago. Other than him scratching my rails (I was a pushover and never told him) and the pocket angles of the Olhausen making the table now a nightmare to play on, I think he did a good job.

Thanks again for the help! :thumbup:

My old Olhausen. You can see those pockets go even with the feather strip grove unlike my table now.

 

[tjlmbklr]

.......

Also, what do you use to cut the rubber so smooth? I was using a fully extended box cutter with the blade lubricated with soap. Seems to work well, but your cuts are so clean.

 

[bradsh98]

Also, what do you use to cut the rubber so smooth? I was using a fully extended box cutter with the blade lubricated with soap. Seems to work well, but your cuts are so clean.

These were cut with a very sharp steak knife, using water as a lubricant.

 

[bradsh98]

I have considered that video but couldn't justify the cost for just myself since the table has been a bit of a money pit already. There is a plethora of resources on YouTube and the web in general that are pretty good, I just need to adapt it in being able to do it with the thick facings, this is my issue. Sometimes I wish I could shadow a true mechanic for a day. That's how I learn the best, hands on and in person.

With that said what you are suggesting with my facings is not correct now (see pic)? My pic shows how much they overlapped the featherstrip grove and how much the pocket helps to hide. The yellow lines are the only other way I see being able to do them. My thought is if I extend the subrails out with thin plywood (or any wood really) and then go back to a traditional facings I can then staple to the backside of that wood.

Only issue is, if I can source out thin wood like 3/16" and I go a 1/4" facing, I am basically the same tightness on my pockets. I realize now, that 4" pockets are a little to snug. If I go to a traditional thinner facing like 1/8" (or 3.2mm). I can then open them up a touch and I gain the ability to staple to the extended rail to better hide my staples. Right? I also attached a pic of my old Olhausen that had the subrails extended by LCCS from here on AZB like 12+ years ago. Other than him scratching my rails (I was a pushover and never told him) and the pocket angles of the Olhausen making the table now a nightmare to play on, I think he did a good job.

Thanks again for the help! :thumbup:

My old Olhausen. You can see those pockets go even with the feather strip grove unlike my table now.

The yellow lines that you have drawn here are more similar to how I cut facings. I generally cut them perpendicular to the angle of the facing, with the back edge of the facing flush with the backside of the featherstrip groove. This will usually allow you to tuck the pocket leather behind the facing, serving to hold it in place.

In regards to stapling to the backside of your wood extensions: I wouldn't recommend it.. Not only will you have a hard time getting the staples to stick, they will generally destroy the wood. You are better off wrapping the cloth around the end of the rail, and stapling in front of the hole for the pocket ear. This should hide the staples pretty well.

 

[tjlmbklr]

These were cut with a very sharp steak knife, using water as a lubricant.

Fine serration or larger? I ask because I was using a fine and the cut seemed too rough. I'll experiment a bit and see if I can get it better.

 

[tjlmbklr]

The yellow lines that you have drawn here are more similar to how I cut facings. I generally cut them perpendicular to the angle of the facing, with the back edge of the facing flush with the backside of the featherstrip groove. This will usually allow you to tuck the pocket leather behind the facing, serving to hold it in place.

In regards to stapling to the backside of your wood extensions: I wouldn't recommend it.. Not only will you have a hard time getting the staples to stick, they will generally destroy the wood. You are better off wrapping the cloth around the end of the rail, and stapling in front of the hole for the pocket ear. This should hide the staples pretty well.

Sounds good. I am kinda regretting the size of these pockets, but they were cheap and look good with the rest of the table colors. But they are a bit small, which in turn actually accents the small 4" pockets very well, they just need to come up another 1/4 - 1/2" like the originals or on my old Olhausen did.

 

[bradsh98]

Fine serration or larger? I ask because I was using a fine and the cut seemed too rough. I'll experiment a bit and see if I can get it better.

Ah, I should have specified... Non-serrated blade

 

[tjlmbklr]

Ah, I should have specified... Non-serrated blade

Ah, so basically a long, flat, thin, sharp blade.

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[Pooldoctor]

I have a friend with an Olhausen table. He wants to reduce his pocket size to Diamond Procut 4 1/2 " corners and 5" sides. He mentioned sending his rails off to a guy for $700. I'm thinking he could accomplish this with pocket liners. What would you suggest?

 

[tjlmbklr]

I have a friend with an Olhausen table. He wants to reduce his pocket size to Diamond Procut 4 1/2 " corners and 5" sides. He mentioned sending his rails off to a guy for $700. I'm thinking he could accomplish this with pocket liners. What would you suggest?

A dual bevel miter saw, a good digital angle finder and the video I linked below are what I used. if it's an Olhausen I'd recommend thicker facings since accufast rubber is softer and will compress more at the facings. If he extends the subrails with wood then he will need to do the math to know what to add after he cuts the new angles because he will lose a tad of material after he cuts the new (preferred) 141° and 102° angles. standard facings are 1/8" or 3.2mm, I'd personally go with 1/4" facings. Olhausen tables corner pockets are at 145° and this is why they rattle the balls so bad.

https://youtu.be/1mFgNpSltX4 (part 1 of 3)

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[trentfromtoledo]

Read all about this and make your decision! It is not going to play like a Diamond, much easier to just BUY ONE!

TFT

I have a friend with an Olhausen table. He wants to reduce his pocket size to Diamond Procut 4 1/2 " corners and 5" sides. He mentioned sending his rails off to a guy for $700. I'm thinking he could accomplish this with pocket liners. What would you suggest?

 

[tjlmbklr]

Read all about this and make your decision! It is not going to play like a Diamond, much easier to just BUY ONE!



TFT

But anyone who's had played on an Olhausen especially me being from an area where there was only table seller within a 100 radius and he exclusively sold Olhausen, will know that 145° cut pockets play like junk. Cut them to 141° and 12-14° down and they will significantly improve the way it plays. I'm all for ridding the world of the phrase "Diamondize" but it an expression to better the play of a table, not to make it play like. Or at least that's the way I look at it. If there are members of this forum who say otherwise I'd be interested to hear their argument.

I will say this about Olhausen; the Accufast cushions I do like. You would need 1/4" facings though.

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