National Pride

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I thought I'd come pick your brains on this subject, for a fresh angle on the matter.

Why do you feel national pride, why do you love your contry?
(Or if you don't why not?)


To me, a country is defined by its arbitary geographical boundaries.
I happen to be born inside the line, so I'm British. I could just have easily be born elsewhere, and people would still expect me to, by default, love whichever country I landed in.

Yet because of this lottery, we believe there's some link between us and everyone else who landed inside the boundaries, and we're encouraged to consider this collective as superior to other countries.
In that light, I don't see anything credible there.

But my biggest objection is when nationalism becomes harmful.
The natural result of nationalism is racism, and we see it all too often.
But also, people in power have a habbit of using nationalism to control thier citizens.
Fall in line with your politicians, for love of country and all that crap. It blinds us to their faults and even evils, and usually lets them get away with whatever they like. And if you love your country you'll swallow it.

Religion and nationalism - hand in hand as two tools of control and abuse of the masses.


Your viewpoint?
 
You won't find many Americans who
agree with you because 9/11 scared
the crap out of us & we are caught up
in a wave of nationalism. I have always
considered myself intelligent & open-
minded & I truly don't know what to
think. I despise terrorists, am highly
suspicious of any kind of fundamentalists ,
But I don't exactly trust Bush. This makes
me nervous because I love America &
support our troops. It's like VietNam.
To criticize the administration is to criticise
America & that's certainly not something
I want to do. I wish every American with
any sense would read Orwell's 1984.
We live in a fog of propaganda & finding
out what's real is not easy.
 
hondo said:
I despise terrorists, am highly
suspicious of any kind of fundamentalists ,
But I don't exactly trust Bush.
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That's because Bush is a fundamentalist. He views the world as good and evil, black and white. There's a frightening biblical tone to many of his foreign policy speeches; I would be more alarmed if I didn't recognize the real agenda, which is simply greed.

To criticize the administration is to criticise
America & that's certainly not something
I want to do.
I emphatically disagree with this statement. The administration is NOT America, they are not the same. America is much larger than any President (and his politics). I love this country, I love what this country traditionally stands for---freedom, democracy, the people themselves---and I consider it my duty to criticize Bush and his policies that are, imho, catastrophic to our nation in every way.

Roger
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Fellas, I really don't think this is the place for political opinions, cause if this thing keeps going, you'll have morons like myself giving opinions, and people usually get really salty when they hear the truth. Merry Christmas.
 
Hi Folks,

Here is my take. During the late 1800's H. L. Menkin, a person we now refer to as a "talking head" or "pundant" said "No one ever lost a buck underestimating the intelligence of the American public"!

The first time this country had a serious debate about the status of Social Security, we were suddenly sidetracked by "my God, the're burning the American Flag!" Who led the fight? The Christian Conservative wing of the Republican Party. It took fifteen years to get SS back in front of the public. Social Security is still bankrupt! If you ask the question and then check the numbers, you'll see the government transfers the assets of the Highway Trust Fund to the Social Security Trust Fund and, when the heat dies down, back. It is a shell game with our money! Why don't people care?

During the late 1990's, our President lied to the American people about having sex with a government intern. Whether the country prospered because of him or inspite of him during his terms will be debated far into the future. A small group of politicians backed by, guess who, led the charge to destroy the person and his Presidency. Did George W. Bush lie to the American people about Iraq and the threat it posed? You and I will never find out because those same people have made it politically unhealthy for anyone to question why our troops are there. If good old George W. didn't lie, how can we trust him and his advisors with our future. They didn't even know what weapons Saddam really had (or where they were). If he did lie, where is the outcry for his blood? I guess a little cum stain on a blouse is more important to people than hundreds of American and Allied lives. Please don't tell me about how bad a person Saddam was. The United States backed governments in Central America and Southeast Asia who were just as blood thirsty. Remember, we helped create Saddam and his weapons as a foil to Iran.

In the end, only an educated and interested American public will demand the truth. It will never happen. The people who want to return us to the "good old days", when ever they were, will never let it happen! Whether they are Christian or Islamic "Fundamentalists", there really is no diferrence. The goal of both of those groups is to deny someone else their basic freedoms, both religious and personal, in the name of God (theirs).

Roger, I agree with your statement regarding the "real agenda". Greed is a motivator in most all facets of modern American life both personal and public. I however, am alarmed. If we do not get our voices heard amid the din, I foresee another McCarthy Era here in the US. Only those whose voices are politically and religiously correct will be heard. History will repeat itself. Another early American pundant said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"
 
Hi Harry,

Sorry to ruffle your feathers again. I guess you were also awake in the middle of the night but watching "fair and balanced" reporting.

Who is in power should not be the question. You either have ethics or not. I received a call from a Republican Party poller (I'm registered) wanting to know what I thought about George W. last week. They asked several questions but, when I told them I disapprove of the job he is doing in Iraq, they hung up! I guess I'm the wrong kind of Republican. Harry, when people tell me that my morals are decaying while they lie, cheat and steal from the American people, it gets me mad. Republican or Democrat!

Like Pin, I hear the national leadership telling me to follow and don't question. I'm not a Lemming. What I do in my public life, I do in private. If you lie to me in public, why should I trust you in private? In the game of billiards, honesty is also part of the game. A person who lies about a bad hit or questioned shot is dishonest period. There is no difference. Yes, this is the wrong forum for this discussion. But burying it only serves to squash the debate. Oops.
 
Last edited:
To criticize the administration is to criticise
America & that's certainly not something
I want to do.
I emphatically disagree with this statement. The administration is NOT America, they are not the same. America is much larger than any President (and his politics). I love this country, I love what this country traditionally stands for---freedom, democracy, the people themselves---and I consider it my duty to criticize Bush and his policies that are, imho, catastrophic to our nation in every way.

You took me out of context. What I meant was that the
administration would have you believe that to criticize
the administration is to criticize America.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
hondo said:

You took me out of context. What I meant was that the
administration would have you believe that to criticize
the administration is to criticize America.
Click to expand...

In that case, we are in full agreement: that's exactly the idiotic, knee-jerk "patriotism" that was exploited after 9-11.

Sorry for misunderstanding your post.

Roger
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Wrong forum: Yeah, I guess so. Sorry.

Thanks for the replies, some interesting angles there.

I'm still no clearer on the 'why' of national pride. Maybe it's just something you can't put into words, or maybe it's a big hoax. I don't know.
 
If you don't love this country and are willing to defend it with your death, you should move. There are 200 other nice places you can move to.
 
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