Natural Talent?

I say the most important aspect of shooting great pool is absolute confidence. The mental part is key. If you doubt yourself and think you will miss the shot, you most likely will. I play with total certainty that I will make the shot. I'm even surprised when I miss a shot.

I played golf the same way. My short game was pretty outstanding. I wholeheartedly expected to make every damn put. So what happens between the ears is the biggest factor I see.
 
philly said:
Positive thoughts and no mental doubt go a long way in helping create that natural ability IMHO.
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A wandering mind has killed more runs than any lack of natural ability ever will.

That said I ran a 3 pack after playing for about 2 years and normally did well in league. I have never been a confident person though. Even though I have quite a bit of natural ability I was never able to translate my success on the table playing for fun to tournaments. When it comes to competition that is where I fall short.

If you have natural ability and self confidence.......that is the recipe for a killer on the table. Who knows, maybe if I had the confidence I would have practiced a bit more over the years.


Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk
 
us820 said:
THIS





I've seen guys come up super fast and never make that last jump,and I've seen guys you never thought would be good become very solid players after grinding it out for years.
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The first guy has natural ability but lacks mental toughness as that is the last jump.

The grinders teach the lesson that hard work can beat talent, if they're tougher mentally.
 
It's the difference between someone who throws a baseball incorrectly and someone with good technique - you might someday pitch an 80mph sharp curve but it's going to take years of overcoming that weakness to get there. However, if you are shown proper mechanics right away, you strengthen the right muscles and teach your brain the right way and progress much faster.

I think most people don't play correctly and have optimal fundamentals simply because they don't know how, and so no matter what they do they only get so good. Pool is one of the ultra-precise things that takes training THE RIGHT WAY to get good at. I don't know that it's "natural talent" as much as it is some instinct at the beginning on how to do it, which means faster progression and more confidence.

I've been playing for 12 years and I've just gotten to low A level. I recently went and got a pool coach and learned how to find and hit the center of the cue ball, something I should've learned day 1. See what I mean?
 
fasted71465 said:
What makes a pool players natural talent? Is it just better hand eye coordination? I see people that have a natural ability to make balls. I do not have this and I envy people that do. I have seen a few people that could run out often after only playing for 9 months. Why couldn't I have this. To me, no amount of practice can over come natural abilities. Am I wrong to think this way?
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Some are just ballers. Some are just assmen.
 
JoeyA said:
U.S. Open 9 Ball Champion John Schmidt say natural ability is where it's at.
He's got plenty so he should know a little bit.

JoeyA
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Irving Crane was a believer in natural talent. "You either have natural talent or you don't." He said this in an article in Billiards Digest many years back. I have it but it's in a box in my closet.
 
Pushout said:
Irving Crane was a believer in natural talent. "You either have natural talent or you don't." He said this in an article in Billiards Digest many years back. I have it but it's in a box in my closet.
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Mosconi said the same thing. I think natural talent is necessary but not sufficient to become a champion.
 
PoolBum said:
Mosconi said the same thing. I think natural talent is necessary but not sufficient to become a champion.
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I gave a formula for skill in a previous thread. I'll break it down even more here.

Skill = time practiced x intensity of practice x quality of practice


Examples using a scale of 1-10


Player A- practiced 160 hrs this month so for time he gets a 10, his practice was weak though because he just hit balls without much thought in why he missed or what he could have done different so his intensity is a 3, and his quality of instruction is pretty poor also as he is trying the latest fad aiming system so he gets a 3.

10 x 3 x 3 = 90

Player B- practiced 40 hrs this month so for time he gets a 6, he split his time with 50% drills/ 25% focused game play/ and 25% competition so his intensity during practice gets a 10, he also has a top player to observe and ask questions and the top player observes him and offers GOOD advice so the quality is a 10 too.

6 x 10 x 10 = 600


Even though player A played way more player B improved 6 times greater. (So much for the 10,000 hr rule) And again this is considering that their natural talent was equal.


The thing about talent though is most people effect their talent with limited beliefs and epigenetics plays a big role too. So if someone gives you a reason why you can't do something and you believe them you, not only mentally, but actually physically drop your talent level too. The mental effect of buying into a limiting belief is it will affect the effort you put into both practice and performance. The physical effect is less actual physical ability. Mugsy Bouges would have never made it to the NBA if he got too wrapped up in concerning himself with "talent".
 
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Arete said:
I gave a formula for skill in a previous thread. I'll break it down even more here.

Skill = time practiced x intensity of practice x quality of practice


Examples using a scale of 1-10


Player A- practiced 160 hrs this month so for time he gets a 10, his practice was weak though because he just hit balls without much thought in why he missed or what he could have done different so his intensity is a 3, and his quality of instruction is pretty poor also as he is trying the latest fad aiming system so he gets a 3.

10 x 3 x 3 = 90

Player B- practiced 40 hrs this month so for time he gets a 6, he split his time with 50% drills/ 25% focused game play/ and 25% competition so his intensity during practice gets a 10, he also has a top player to observe and ask questions and the top player observes him and offers GOOD advice so the quality is a 10 too.

6 x 10 x 10 = 600


Even though player A played way more player B improved 6 times greater. (So much for the 10,000 hr rule) And again this is considering that their natural talent was equal.


The thing about talent though is most people effect their talent with limited beliefs and epigenetics plays a big role too. So if someone gives you a reason why you can't do something and you believe them you, not only mentally, but actually physically drop your talent level too. The mental effect of buying into a limiting belief is it will affect the effort you put into both practice and performance. The physical effect is less actual physical ability. Mugsy Bouges would have never made it to the NBA if he got too wrapped up in concerning himself with "talent".
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No responses?
 
Arete said:
No responses?
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It is hard to tell, what you are basing your analogies on..It has been my experience, that no two players are equally blessed with natural talent!..Some can practice diligently (Shane)..and some can practice sporadically (Alex)! ..They will still beat most players, wih near equal skills, who practice 'til their eyes bleed!

The bottom line is, natural, god given talent!..When you reach a certain level, it becomes a matter of who is 'on' that day, and who isn't!..Predicting a winner with any certainty, than becomes a guessing game!..Thats why it will always be called gambling!

PS..And don't we love it?..:D
 
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Well, isn't this like asking what makes a person naturally talented at anything, hockey, golf, painting, the violin, etc... Being born with the right genes?

However, although people are born with different degrees of innate talent, hear me out when it comes to hard work and practice.

Earl Strickland may be one of the most talented players ever, but he also starting playing when he was 5 and dropped in order to play full time.

Mozart is the classic child prodigy, but his father was also a relentless task master, and Mozart practiced for hours and hours every day from the time he was a toddler.

Tiger Woods was a golf prodigy, but also lived his entire life from the time he was a toddler, dedicated to golf. Golf was his entire life.

So while "natural talent" is always a big factor in every activity, you will find the best at anything are also tend to practice the most.

And on the subject of practice, practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
 
MuchoBurrito said:
Well, isn't this like asking what makes a person naturally talented at anything, hockey, golf, painting, the violin, etc... Being born with the right genes? However, although people are born with different degrees of innate talent, hear me out when it comes to hard work and practice.

Earl Strickland may be one of the most talented players ever, but he also starting playing when he was 5 and dropped in order to play full time. Mozart is the classic child prodigy, but his father was also a relentless task master, and Mozart practiced for hours and hours every day from the time he was a toddler.

Tiger Woods was a golf prodigy, but also lived his entire life from the time he was a toddler, dedicated to golf. Golf was his entire life. So while "natural talent" is always a big factor in every activity, you will find the best at anything are also tend to practice the most.

And on the subject of practice, practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
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All the names you mentioned, are good examples. (as is SVB)..Now please define perfect practice?..Can it consist of 20 days, 20 months, or 20 years?..It is, and will always be, an unknown quantity!..Thats why Harold Worst, (who rarely practiced) could beat Irving Crane, or Boston Shorty, who practiced their every waking hour! There is NO replacement for God given talent! :rolleyes:
 
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SJDinPHX said:
It is hard to tell, what you are basing your analogies on..It has been my experience, that no two players are equally blessed with natural talent!..Some can practice diligently (Shane)..and some can practice sporadically (Alex)! ..They will still beat most players, wih near equal skills, who practice 'til their eyes bleed!

The bottom line is, natural, god given talent!..When you reach a certain level, it becomes a matter of who is 'on' that day, and who isn't!..Predicting a winner with any certainty, than becomes a guessing game!..Thats why it will always be called gambling!

PS..And don't we love it?..:D
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Hey SJD, how's it going?

My examples were just to demonstrate the factors I talked about. For easy to understand purposes I hypothetically used two people of exact talent.

As for Alex and Shane. I would bet big that both of those guys put in a lot of quality practice with good instruction. Time, intensity, and quality were all very high imo. Alex can maintain now with little practice but in the beginning I would bet he was playing a lot with a great focus on improving. I think that most players just hit balls with friends or they might even gamble but they never take the time to really focus on improving. The good gamblers I have seen focus on improving though. The bad players I have witnessed don't really put in the time and intensity needed and they do it wrong. They miss a shot during practice and don't even think about why. If those players 1) believed they could be top players 2) desired to be top players 3) took the time to develop their skills 4) used their practice time wisely and 5) had some good help along the way then they too could reach top level pool.

I could be wrong but that is what I think.
 
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When I say the people doing it wrong don't even try to figure out why, I am not talking about just pocketing the ball. I mean did the execute the shot they tried... did they pocket the ball, did the cue ball go where they intended, did the cue ball stop where they wanted? There is only three factors to determine... alignment, where they struck the cue ball, how hard they hit it? Which one or ones did they do wrong? Most don't give it any thought even during practice. You have probably played at a high level for so long that your need to focus while practicing or even practice itself during the end of your plying years was probably minimal. I know at your high level striking the cueball, alignment, and speed took minimal conscious thought.

But I have a serious question. In your early days did you put in a lot of playing time focusing on how to get better, what it took to execute certain shots, etc?
 
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SJDinPHX said:
All the names you mentioned, are good examples. (as is SVB)..Now please define perfect practice?..Can it consist of 20 days, 20 months, or 20 years?..It is, and will always be, an unknown quantity!..Thats why Harold Worst, (who rarely practiced) could beat Irving Crane, or Boston Shorty, who practiced their every waking hour! There is NO replacement for God given talent! :rolleyes:
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Yeah I was going to say SVB but I already had a pool talent in my examples. :)

'Perfect' practice I just used as a qualifier.

Simply "practicing" is not necessarily a path towards real success. The quality and type of practice makes a huge difference. A person can "practice" doing something wrong over and over. A person can "practice" bad habits. A person can "practice" the wrong things. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Ways to get better at "practice":

- Practice your weak points
- Practice your fundamentals
- Practice with other people so you can learn from them
- Practice with a long-term focus
- Vary your practice so you try new things

And so on.

My point was simply that what many people consider "practicing" is just playing games by themselves and hoping to run out. IMHO, that is not very effective practice.

But of course everybody isn't blessed with the same level of talent. We can practice as much as we want, and we're still not going to break like Larry Nevel. That's just the way it is. But that fact, that we all have intrinsic limits to our ability, should NEVER deter us from putting in the hours and reaching our potential.

Any coach would agree that they'd take a mediocre talent, but hard worker over a talented but lazy player any day of the week.
 
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MuchoBurrito said:
Yeah I was going to say SVB but I already had a pool talent in my examples. :)

'Perfect' practice I just used as a qualifier.

Simply "practicing" is not necessarily a path towards real success. The quality and type of practice makes a huge difference. A person can "practice" doing something wrong over and over. A person can "practice" bad habits. A person can "practice" the wrong things. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Ways to get better at "practice":

- Practice your weak points
- Practice your fundamentals
- Practice with other people so you can learn from them
- Practice with a long-term focus
- Vary your practice so you try new things

And so on.

My point was simply that what many people consider "practicing" is just playing games by themselves and hoping to run out. IMHO, that is not very effective practice.

But of course everybody isn't blessed with the same level of talent. We can practice as much as we want, and we're still not going to break like Larry Nevel. That's just the way it is. But that fact, that we all have intrinsic limits to our ability, should NEVER deter us from putting in the hours and reaching our potential.

Any coach would agree that they'd take a mediocre talent, but hard worker over a talented but lazy player any day of the week.
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Agreed.

And if they do practice correctly for a while with the idea of talent in their head. When they can't make shots right away they get frustrated, blame talent, and quit or at minimal slow the learning process with their poor mindset. I wonder if they think SVB made every shot right away.

That's the good thing about learning something when you are a kid. The idea of talent never enters your head. When an adult starts considering talent they can find eveidence that they might not have what it takes. When they believe this they lose all motivation to practice and get better. They find it hard to put in the time and they even find real practice boring and a waste of time for them because after all they think they simply don't have the talent.
 
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