Need advice on rails, cushions and pocket shape

P

predator

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Apart from worn out cloth which needs replacing, my tables also have some other issues.

Currently rails on my 9 footers play funny. There are dead spots, and then there are also spots where the ball rebounds in a pinball like fashion.
New rubber rails required? Which should I look into?

Next...the pockets. Pockets are 4.75 at the front, and about 4.25 at the back. I would like to make them 4.5 inch (2 balls width exactly), but straight cut like on pro tables used in competition. Even less then 4.5 would be OK, but straight cut...those angled pockets of mine reject well hit balls down the rail. How does one go about making that sort of transform? Would I need to replace the whole rail? Or resort to shims?
I'd prefer replacing the whole rail, but where to buy such a thing? Usually stores sell only rubber cushions.

Thanks.
 
I would say from the sounds of it you need new rubber especially if you are planning on extending the subrail. What kind of table(s) do you own?
 
The table is Olympic I. It is sort of a copy of Brunswick, used only in Europe I believe. I think they are made in Germany. Versions we have are out of date, they are now called Olympic II or Dynamic II. Such tables are sometimes used for Eurotour.

Here's the link:
http://www.dynamic-billard.com/shop_en.php?seite=5&artikel_id=&hersteller_id=&sort_auswahl=artikel_vkp&suchbegrif=&menu_id=28&username=&pass=&login=

Hint: scroll to Billiardtable Dynamic II, 9', brown, Pool

Replacing the rubber is not that big of a deal, but that subrail extending is what bothers me. That doesn't look easy to me.
 
Currently rails on my 9 footers play funny. There are dead spots, and then there are also spots where the ball rebounds in a pinball like fashion.
New rubber rails required? Which should I look into?

Next...the pockets. Pockets are 4.75 at the front, and about 4.25 at the back. I would like to make them 4.5 inch (2 balls width exactly), but straight cut like on pro tables used in competition. Even less then 4.5 would be OK, but straight cut...those angled pockets of mine reject well hit balls down the rail. How does one go about making that sort of transform? Would I need to replace the whole rail? Or resort to shims?
I'd prefer replacing the whole rail, but where to buy such a thing? Usually stores sell only rubber cushions.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Take a square, place it up against the rail rubber as I've shown in some of my posts, then measure the point of the cushions every couple of inches. It sounds like you have high and low spots in your rail rubber.

Corner pockets at 4 1/2" openings are okay, but they being the "Pro Pockets" still taper smaller as the pocket gets deeper. Two reasons balls can reject from corner pockets, one...the facings are rock hard, or missing pieces of the facing. Two, your pocket angles are cut to wide, causing the balls to bounce back and forth between pocket facings when shooting a ball down the rail, instead of deflecting the ball into the pocket.

Just to let you know, there is no such pocket as a straight back pocket. If you had the pocket angles cut at 45degrees as to insure the back of the pocket was as wide as the mouth of the pocket, and you still wanted the pocket opening to be 4 1/2"....you'd never make a ball down the rails as you'd only have a little over 2" of pocket showing to make the balls. This is why the mouth of the corner pockets is wider than the back of the pocket...it opens up the pocket a little more to make them balls down the rails.
 
realkingcobra said:
Currently rails on my 9 footers play funny. There are dead spots, and then there are also spots where the ball rebounds in a pinball like fashion.
New rubber rails required? Which should I look into?

Next...the pockets. Pockets are 4.75 at the front, and about 4.25 at the back. I would like to make them 4.5 inch (2 balls width exactly), but straight cut like on pro tables used in competition. Even less then 4.5 would be OK, but straight cut...those angled pockets of mine reject well hit balls down the rail. How does one go about making that sort of transform? Would I need to replace the whole rail? Or resort to shims?
I'd prefer replacing the whole rail, but where to buy such a thing? Usually stores sell only rubber cushions.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Take a square, place it up against the rail rubber as I've shown in some of my posts, then measure the point of the cushions every couple of inches. It sounds like you have high and low spots in your rail rubber.

Corner pockets at 4 1/2" openings are okay, but they being the "Pro Pockets" still taper smaller as the pocket gets deeper. Two reasons balls can reject from corner pockets, one...the facings are rock hard, or missing pieces of the facing. Two, your pocket angles are cut to wide, causing the balls to bounce back and forth between pocket facings when shooting a ball down the rail, instead of deflecting the ball into the pocket.

Just to let you know, there is no such pocket as a straight back pocket. If you had the pocket angles cut at 45degrees as to insure the back of the pocket was as wide as the mouth of the pocket, and you still wanted the pocket opening to be 4 1/2"....you'd never make a ball down the rails as you'd only have a little over 2" of pocket showing to make the balls. This is why the mouth of the corner pockets is wider than the back of the pocket...it opens up the pocket a little more to make them balls down the rails.[/QUOTE]

Take a tape measure and measure 4 1/2" across the very back of the pocket...and look at how wide the corner pocket casting is compaired to the 4 1/2" mark...I think you'll see that there's no way you can make the back of the pocket as wide as the mouth of the pocket as well.
 
Ok, I realize that back of the pocket can never be as wide as the opening, but...recently I played on a table that had pocket openings at slightly less than 4.5 inches, but it did accept balls literally fired down the rail. My 4.75" 'buckets' won't accept such shots unless hit perfectly, even with a brand new cloth.

Together with new cushion rubber, I'm thinking about reducing pocket opening from 4.75 to 4.5...that should reduce the facings angle somewhat and make them more 'straight cut' so to speak. Is this hard to do using the shims?
 
predator said:
Ok, I realize that back of the pocket can never be as wide as the opening, but...recently I played on a table that had pocket openings at slightly less than 4.5 inches, but it did accept balls literally fired down the rail. My 4.75" 'buckets' won't accept such shots unless hit perfectly, even with a brand new cloth.

Together with new cushion rubber, I'm thinking about reducing pocket opening from 4.75 to 4.5...that should reduce the facings angle somewhat and make them more 'straight cut' so to speak. Is this hard to do using the shims?
Click to expand...

Look, if you reduce the pocket openings to 4 1/2" that may not cure your problems. If the angles of your pocket openings are such that when you shoot a ball into the pocket from down the rails, and the pocket rejects the ball...this could be happing because of the pocket angle openings. Increasing the facing thicknesses to reduce the pocket opening to 4 1/2" inches will just make the pocket smaller, but will do nothing to change the angle of the pocket opening cut...the same problem exsists...just in a smaller pocket. You will need to replace the rubber, recut the pocket openings to a more straighter angle, like at a 50 degree angle with a 10 degree bevel, then put on your facings if you expect to cure your pocket rejecting problems.

Glen
 
Chances are your mechanic will be lost... It takes a lot of experience and practice to learn the in and outs of rail work. Even a lot of manufacturers don't have the angles and such correct. Newer Diamonds are engineered well and by far the best most acceptable (tight) pocket available.

I have talked to a handful that understand the concept of extending the subrail.
 
predator said:
Ok, I realize that back of the pocket can never be as wide as the opening, but...recently I played on a table that had pocket openings at slightly less than 4.5 inches, but it did accept balls literally fired down the rail. My 4.75" 'buckets' won't accept such shots unless hit perfectly, even with a brand new cloth.

Together with new cushion rubber, I'm thinking about reducing pocket opening from 4.75 to 4.5...that should reduce the facings angle somewhat and make them more 'straight cut' so to speak. Is this hard to do using the shims?
Click to expand...

This type of action is normal for most all tables. I'm pretty sure you'd agree that firing a object ball down the rail with low/draw english from the cue ball intensifies the pocket rejecting the object ball. The more firm the pocket facings the more you're going to experience the ball rejection. Why are you playing so hard anyways? :), just kidding. Also to consider is the pocket facings will warp or become indented causing even more rejection. If you look closely at the pocket facings, see if you notice a cup or dip in the center of the facing. Sometimes you have to run your finger along the top of the facing to actually feel it, but with a table with tons of use, you can really see where the pool balls from being fired into the pockets wear a dip into the pocket facings. So when you fire a ball down the rail it's actually hitting the dip in the facing and instead of sweeping the ball into the pocket. So you could imagine with simple laws of the universe, the the object ball is going more laterally to the center of the pocket than normal with worn pocket facings. Extremely large dips in pocket facings will result in the ball actually rebounding back onto the table without hitting the other side of the pocket. :) Replace the pocket facings.

Also, make sure you have the subrail systems aligned with the slate cut outs for the pockets. You'd be amazed how far out of square you can mount subrails to slate without actually using the proper tools to make sure you're square. Since the subrail slate bolt holes are milled about 3 times the size of the bots that are used for ease of installation and slate chipping, you could be out a few degrees. So now you have corner pockets that aren't sitting exactly overtop of the slate cutouts. This would cause all the pockets on your table to have character, and possibly have pre-mature felt wear/rips where the felt is stretched around the slate pocket cutouts.

I think I just wrote this post out of common sense. Or Did I? |:-)
 
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OK guys, thanks for advices.

Just one more question. How can I determine whether I have K-55 or K-66 profile cushion without table disassembly?

I have decided to order Artemis rail rubber. The store where I plan to buy it has them in K-66 profile.
 
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