Need Help...Radar Gun...

[drivermaker]

The CB starts slowing down almost immediately after leaving the tip of the cue, as does a baseball the further it gets from the pitchers finger tips. (Why is it that after you hit 40 years old, this same slowing down of the aging process works in total reverse and turns into an increase of speed)?

I'm not sure that spin has any chance to even take.

The radar gun should have a fixed placement and so should the launching point for the CB. BTW, the shortest distance between the front ball in a rack and the CB is on the head spot. Once you start moving out to the side along the headstring, the distance increases to about 6" or more once you're on the rail. (if you don't believe me...measure it). The increased distance would also lead to a slow down.

 

[T411]

Other than to find out who has the fasted break or how fast your break is, what does it matter? I do not think that a good break necessarily has anything to do with ones effort to increase ones break speed. I may be able to break as fast as anyone, is that going to make my break great?

 

[DaveK]

Jeff,
Not a very good way to measure speed, or even compare breaks. I believe it has been shown that the cue ball slows down (someone correct me if they know differently) even before hitting the one-ball on a power break. By the time the cue ball reaches the absent foot rail area, surely it has slowed further. Wouldn't the amount of slowing depend on the amount of forward or reverse spin placed on the cue ball?? Too many variables for me - I like the idea of a radar gun with fixed placement. Ceebee used to sell one on his website, but I believe it had problems with fluorescent light, so he wouldn't sell me one until the bugs are fixed.

Actually it is a very GOOD way to measure the speed of the cue ball (agreed, at the point where it leaves the 'table'). If the table and ground are both nicely 'horizontal' (as compared to gravity), the calculation does not involve the measurement of time, rather you measure distance (the time unit enters the equation as the accelleration due to gravity). My guess (too lazy to do the calculations) is that you can achieve a higher degree of precision measuring the distance. What I mean is, when measuring the distance you should be able to achieve +- 1mm or so. This would equate to a very small time measurement to get the same speed measurement, perhaps in the 1000ths of seconds (again, I did not run the numbers). You might need to know the precise accelleration due to gravity at the table, it will vary a bit from place to place. I am inclined to believe that this method could be more accurate and precise than a radar gun, especially a cheap or uncalibrated unit, but would want to do a bit more research before placing a wager.

Also, if it is felt that the speed is better measured at the foot string, or at the head spot, you just leave 1 or 2 slates off the table

Dave, who will not be doing this at home, that concrete wall will get in the way every time !

 

[drivermaker]

Actually it is a very GOOD way to measure the speed of the cue ball (agreed, at the point where it leaves the 'table'). If the table and ground are both nicely 'horizontal' (as compared to gravity), the calculation does not involve the measurement of time, rather you measure distance (the time unit enters the equation as the accelleration due to gravity). My guess (too lazy to do the calculations) is that you can achieve a higher degree of precision measuring the distance. What I mean is, when measuring the distance you should be able to achieve +- 1mm or so. This would equate to a very small time measurement to get the same speed measurement, perhaps in the 1000ths of seconds (again, I did not run the numbers). You might need to know the precise accelleration due to gravity at the table, it will vary a bit from place to place. I am inclined to believe that this method could be more accurate and precise than a radar gun, especially a cheap or uncalibrated unit, but would want to do a bit more research before placing a wager.

I think the distance measurement could become totally skewed and moot once the master blasters figured out how to get a little air time into their hit to reduce initial friction.

 

[drivermaker]

Other than to find out who has the fasted break or how fast your break is, what does it matter? I do not think that a good break necessarily has anything to do with ones effort to increase ones break speed. I may be able to break as fast as anyone, is that going to make my break great?

The World's Long Drive Contest in golf surely doesn't mean that they're better players or their long drive will necessarily lead to lower scores. But they're both a lot of fun to watch just to see the awesome speed and power, along with sounds in pool.

 

[DaveK]

I think the distance measurement could become totally skewed and moot once the master blasters figured out how to get a little air time into their hit to reduce initial friction.

Again, I have not run the numbers, but any airtime would add a vertical component opposite to what is being measured (the drop off the table), so the result could be worse (lower 'horizontal' speed). This effect would be played with by the 'master blasters', something that would be a detriment to their breaks (that is unless you like launching the cue ball off the table).

So here's another idea, play the CB into a single object ball on the headspot, and measure it's (OB) distance to fall. In that way one must keep control of the CB, and poor hits on the OB would be reflected in both the absolute distance the OB travels, and it's direction.

OK, this is getting too convoluted, maybe a radar gun is better, even with it's limitations ...

I've thought about using a buddys golf ball launch monitor, but it is set up to measure speeds of balls from perhaps 50 to 150 mph. I want to try it out though, even if it's to prove to myself it won't work. One cool thing about this device is that if it could measure such a slow speed, it would also be able to measure spin rate (for top or bottom, it would not do so well with siding spin rates).

Dave

 

[woody_968]

Other than to find out who has the fasted break or how fast your break is, what does it matter? I do not think that a good break necessarily has anything to do with ones effort to increase ones break speed. I may be able to break as fast as anyone, is that going to make my break great?

Break speed is only one small part of the break, and yes its more important to have a solid hit with cueball control than to hit them hard. But at some point to really dominate a nine ball game one may need to learn how to increase their speed. The use of a speed gun can be very usefull to work on this. That way you can find out techniques that may or may not increase speed.

 

[X Breaker]

Thank you for all the replies. All of you have been very helpful, much appreciated.

Does anyone remember where was the gun pointed at during the Sardo contest?

I think the breaker was allowed to break from anywhere on the table along the head string, is that correct?

If my memory serves me correctly, during the Saroo contest in Vegas, the gun was mounted on a tripod and was located somewhere in front of the breaker, not from behind or the side, is that right?

Thank you.

Richard

 

[chefjeff]

calling Bob Jewett

Jeff,
Not a very good way to measure speed, or even compare breaks. I believe it has been shown that the cue ball slows down (someone correct me if they know differently) even before hitting the one-ball on a power break. By the time the cue ball reaches the absent foot rail area, surely it has slowed further. Wouldn't the amount of slowing depend on the amount of forward or reverse spin placed on the cue ball?? Too many variables for me - I like the idea of a radar gun with fixed placement. Ceebee used to sell one on his website, but I believe it had problems with fluorescent light, so he wouldn't sell me one until the bugs are fixed.

I'm not sure about that, Dr. Willie. It seems once the realtionship was established between the distance traveled and the speed, the rest doesn't matter. If it goes so far, it must be going so fast. But I could be wrong.

Maybe moving the cueball two diamonds toward the rack (= distance from the head ball to the foot rail) would eliminate any additional errors caused by the spin and distance traveled on the cloth. But then only the side break would allow a good stance.

How about using ceebee's practice rack thingy and put a sensor on one of the cords that measures the amount of force that hits the rack?

Where's Mr. Jewett? We need some physics here.

Jeff Livingston

 

[drivermaker]

Where's Mr. Jewett? We need some physics here.

Only if he can control himself to this issue and not start dragging it into the actual shooting process and how to play the game.

 

[vapoolplayer]

i'm just gonna jump right in here...............


does break spead actually really matter anyway????

you hit the 1 ball...........you make a ball..........you have a good spread............you leave yourself to where you will more than likely have a shot................5mph or 30mph..........all the same.

VAP

 

[mjantti]

Cueball slowing down ?

If you look closely at the cloth, you can see the white "burn" marks where the cueball took off and where it landed first. Watching those rare landing marks tells me that the cueball touches only once or twice the cloth during a high speed break, which suggests that the speed shouldn't decrease much before hitting the rack. The first 2-4' the cueball is usually airborne and in some very hard breaks the cueball doesn't even touch the cloth at all before hitting the rack. A couple of WPC slow motions has shown this...

So, I wouldn't say the cueball slows down much on breaks before hitting the rack...

 

[drivermaker]

So, I wouldn't say the cueball slows down much on breaks before hitting the rack...

Even when you're playing anywhere along the equatorial line due to gravity or in the N/S hemisphere from the Coriolis Force?

 

[drivermaker]

i'm just gonna jump right in here...............


does break spead actually really matter anyway????

you hit the 1 ball...........you make a ball..........you have a good spread............you leave yourself to where you will more than likely have a shot................5mph or 30mph..........all the same.

VAP

Ask Keith McCready...

 

[chefjeff]

OK, how about a feedback device similar to the one at the carnival where you swing a sledge hammer and ring the bell?

Put an 2-1/2 elbow pipe on the cloth with a clear tube attached to it extending upward x feet. The object is to hit the cueball into the pipe and have it roll up the tube as far as possible. Graduated marks on the tube would indicate the speed. At the top of the tube would be the bell, which would require x mph to hit.

This would require a straight, powerful hit and would be a cool visual.

Step right up, impress your girl, win a cupie doll....

Jeff Livingston

 

[T411]

Break speed is only one small part of the break, and yes its more important to have a solid hit with cueball control than to hit them hard. But at some point to really dominate a nine ball game one may need to learn how to increase their speed. The use of a speed gun can be very usefull to work on this. That way you can find out techniques that may or may not increase speed.

I think that you are right in the fact that one may need to increase their speed. I do not think that a great break speed and a great break, necessarily go hand in hand. What works for some may not work for another. I do not think a person needs a radar gun to know if his or her break speed is increased or decreased, you can feel what your putting into the stroke. As fare as techniques that may increase or decrease speed? Well the end result of whatever power that you put in the break is evident. Does the number that registers on the gun matter? drivermaker said that it could be fun tool to see who can hit the ball the hardest; I can go with that. But other than that, is it really a good tool to make your break better?

 

[mjantti]

Even when you're playing anywhere along the equatorial line due to gravity or in the N/S hemisphere from the Coriolis Force?

Actually, Coriolis Force will make the cueball curve on it's way to the rack... that's why I always get that off-center hit on the head ball Damn you rotating earth...

 

[drivermaker]

Actually, Coriolis Force will make the cueball curve on it's way to the rack... that's why I always get that off-center hit on the head ball Damn you rotating earth...

That's easily corrected by putting counteracting english on the CB....hmmmm, now which way does it go in the N, clockwise or counter clockwise....time to go to the toilet anyway, I'll figure it out there.

 

[DaveK]

Actually, Coriolis Force will make the cueball curve on it's way to the rack... that's why I always get that off-center hit on the head ball Damn you rotating earth...

You play with a degree of precision with which I am not familiar ...

Now if you hit the break shot with such power that time slows down I'll be mighty impressed, and you won't have to worry about Coriolis so much either ...

Dave

 

[thecyclone@btin]

hi i am interested in getting hold of a speed gun, can you help........ the cyclone