Never saw this before...

[Tommy-D]

> Back several months ago I replaced the phenolic tip/ferrule on a break jump cue for a repeat customer. The first one was broken as a result of jamming it into the table repeatedly while shaft-jumping a bar ball,LOL.

The customer calls me out of nowhere after several months of no contact,to tell me he's on the way to show me something.

He brings me the shaft,which now looks like Robin Hood shot it. The ferrule,tenon,and 7-8" of shaftwood are split right down the middle like it was done with a razor blade or chisel. Both sides of the ferrule (black canvas phenolic) are still firmly glued in place,and you could see plain as day that there were NO voids inside the ferrule. The cue hasn't been used for months.

He said he knew that the work I did wasn't the source of the problem,but I was clueless as to a possible explanation,other than MAYBE there was an anomaly with the shaft I didn't catch before. Input? Tommy D.

 

[dave sutton]

sounds to me like robin hood did shoot it...

the customer knows what happened... he prob cracked it jumping like a jackass and continues to break with it until this happened

 

[Dave38]

A picture is worth a lot of words, but the truth from the customer is always worth much more. I haven't seen phenolic break yet, but I've only been using it for about 3-4 years, but I also don't recall seeing even a post on here about it happening. If the customer comes in and shows you that, then I'd have to say something more than a normal situation caused it. Wood will not be strong enough to break or cause phenolic to split like that. Phenolic is as hard as the balls they are striking, and then some. I have to agree with Dave S. as striking the slate very hard may cause this. I think the anomally was the customer jamming it into the slate, especially considering it's the second time of repair. He may have cracked the maple the first time without realizing it, and the last time finally took out the ferrule and shaft. Sounds like a new shaft is in order for the right price.
Basically there's nothing you could have foreseen to avoid this failure, it sounds like operator failure more than anything else.
Dave

 

[Tommy-D]

> The assessment of it being operator error is spot-on . This is the 2nd time I've replaced a solid phenolic ferrule for him. The first one he broke when shaft jumping knocked a piece out of it that left a 3/8 wide flat on one side like it was milled that way,LOL. This one split clean right down the middle. I even finished breaking it the rest of the way so I could show him where the glue was solid,because it sounded like his wife was in the background implying it was my fault on the phone.

This was only a Viper shaft,so it's not like he won't be able to find a replacement. He asked me if I could put the same kind of ferrule on a new shaft,and I kiddingly told him yes but why polish a turd ? Tommy D.

 

[dave sutton]

i say make him happy as best you can and if he implies you had faullt in the failure id tell him look elsewhere for repairs...

 

[rhncue]

> The assessment of it being operator error is spot-on . This is the 2nd time I've replaced a solid phenolic ferrule for him. The first one he broke when shaft jumping knocked a piece out of it that left a 3/8 wide flat on one side like it was milled that way,LOL. This one split clean right down the middle. I even finished breaking it the rest of the way so I could show him where the glue was solid,because it sounded like his wife was in the background implying it was my fault on the phone.

This was only a Viper shaft,so it's not like he won't be able to find a replacement. He asked me if I could put the same kind of ferrule on a new shaft,and I kiddingly told him yes but why polish a turd ? Tommy D.

Sounds like the wrong type of ferrule material. It sounds like flat laminated, stood on end instead of rolled.

Dick

 

[KJ Cues]

There are two types of phenolic used for J/B T/F combos, flat-lam & rolled/molded.
It's been suggested that the flat-lam. is harder, though I haven't yet come to believe this. Harder DOES NOT translate to STRONGER, particularly in this application. Flat-lam. may be touted as harder but it certainly isn't stronger, IMO.
I base this statement on the design/construction of the mtrl. itself. Flat-lam. is just that, flat laminations, all stacked one on top of the other until the desired thickness of mtrl. is reached. Then it's processed to rounds in much the same manner as wooden dowels are processed from boards. When installed on the shaft, each one of those laminations is a 'fault-line' traveling out from the tenon to the surface-wall of the ferrule. If and when that T/F breaks, it will split along one of the laminations, GUARANTEED. Whether it's canvas-based or linen-based makes no difference. It's in the design of the mtrl. itself.

Rolled/molded is made differently. It is rolled, much in the same manner as you would roll a sheet of newspaper with each successive layer overlapping the layer beneath it. In other words, there are no fault-lines. They have been designed OUT of the manufacturing process. IMHO, rolled/molded is the stronger of the two.

The comment about the wife in the background slays me, Lol.
Here's something you may not have thought of yet. The only reason that she's making any comments at all is because your client has convinced her that he hasn't done anything wrong so it must be all your fault. You gotta luv it.

Whatever it takes, you've got to pacify this client to his satisfaction and then cut him loose. Tell him that you'll make this repair for him but you will never do any more work for him. He's an equipment abuser and you need to send him down the road. Let him be someone else's problem.

What did you make from the first T/F install for this guy; $20/25?
I'll bet you'd gladly spend twice that just to be rid of him. Lol.

 

[Tommy-D]

> After examining the material,I'm now in complete agreement with KJ and Dickie,this is certainly a flat-lam rod I have.

The first one I installed was just a 1 1/4 blank he bought at a tournament for me to install on the shaft that got broke. I did that for dinner later.

The customer bought this rod from Atlas,and gave it to me in return for making and installing a ferrule the 2nd time,along with 20 bucks to cover my time. I've made 7-8 of these same type ferrules from the same rod with no issues other than the smell .

The material has also been very popular with the BIG earring crowd because of the light weight. I've made gages for guys all the way up to .562 diameter where I just faced and parted off a 1/2 long piece,centerdrilled it,cut a couple of o-ring grooves to hold it in place,and polished a little,20 bucks a set .

The profit from his gift of material is compensation enough for having to deal with him. Tommy D.