new member of APA & it starts already

Anytime there's a handicapping system, someone's going to complain...I think it's just an unwritten rule somewhere...it doesn't matter whether it's APA or golf...someone's going to whine! I have a saying on my wall about golf handicaps:

"Golfers have TWO handicaps...one for betting...and one for bragging!" :thumbup:

At least in the APA, handicaps are easily seen on the scoresheets! ;)

Jason
 
arbitrary ratings

I don't think my league knows the meaning of "slowly move up" I got moved 3 skill levels after 1 week of play

Some folks get moved up fast by beating the wrong person or by having the L.O. witness some difficult outs, etc. Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease. There are a lot of squeakers in some of these handicapped leagues.

Last night I heard about a "2" that moved up to a "3" before playoffs. Her record was 0 for X. I was told it was done at the behest of the L.O.

Sadly some people spend more time trying to manipulate rather than allow the system to establish the handicaps over time.

Good luck playing ina 14.1 league and APA at the same time. Can I offer the name of a good psychologist ?
 
i have been a pool player on and off for more than 35 years and have never been a member of any league. always heard that BCA was better than APA as far as rules. (i don't like "slop" shots either.) i had also heard that there is a lot of "drama" going on every night of league play. however, i just moved to this area about 3 onths ago and have a hard time finding a game (i like 14.1 and 8 ball). at the 14.1 league the other night i was invited to join a team with APA. i joined 2 weeks ago but could not play the first night so, this past monday night was my first night to play. i don't know much about the rules except you get to slop in the shots. like everyone, i have good shooting days and bad shooting days. one day i shoot like a 6 and another day like a strong 4. but i was told that as a new member i would start as a "4" and be adjusted accordingly after. that night was one of my "good" nights, making my 3 rail banks etc......later i played a "6" and we went hill hill and i came out on top. i heard whispers from the members of the opposing team that i was shooting like a "7" etc. it is true that that night was one of my better nights. so this past weds night i have my 14.1 league and the guys who had me join their team with APA. they said that one of the members of the opposing team had sent a complaint to APA about my being a 6 or 7 and coming in as a "4" etc......and our team should have sent me in as a 6. yaddy yaddi yaddi......so tell me, is this how it is in the leagues? i really don't need any more drama in my life at the moment. also, was i supposed to go in rated higher than a "4"? like weds night with the 14.1 match i shot like a "3"!! :angry: do i wear armor next monday night or just tell the other teams to "f" off? at least i do not "sandbag"!

Most 4s would not know what 14.1 is. And a 3 rail bank to them would be a shot of a lifetime. Tell the naysayers that you will go up and you will beat them again when you are at your higher handicap.
 
Dont worry about the drama. Its a party of any league you join no matter what the league format is. When I first joined APA they started me as a 4 per the rules of the league. That first night I played a friend who was already established as a 6 who plays even with me. I lost that match. The next week they dropped me to a 2. In that 2nd week I played another 6 named Bob who knew my game very well, and gave me a bit of grief because of my 2 rating. I basically broke and ran 2 games against him, and won my match. I then went up to a 5 for the 3rd & 4th weeks. By the 5th week they got it figured out that I was a 6 as I won solidly in the 3rd & 4th week matches.

To this day, Bob still gives me some shit about beating him as a 2. And all I do is smile and say to him "Oh Well!". We both played under the same rules. We never had any solid 7 players in my league when I was playing. So I never really was able to get my 7 rating.
 
the same thing happened to me the 1st night i played apa. the opposing captain called the lo halfway through the match when i was beating up their 7.

did not take me long to be raised lol. now the captain who called is good friends with me and we have had a few laughs over it.

dont sweat stuff like that man, just have fun playing pool .
 
My league doesn't seem to have much drama. We all like hanging out together and just playing. I started last fall and they put me at a 4. I had several good nights and shot to a 7 in both 9 ball and 8 ball. I am realistically a low 6 so I then lost for a while until a few weeks later when they lowered me to a 5. I am now a 5 and winning almost every match. weird but they havent moved me up again so I must be getting plenty of innings in. I like the APA because its a bit more laid back. BCA guys seem to be a bit too serious in my area. I do hate the slop though.
 
That is how it is when you first start in the APA and have any kind of talent. People complain at first, and thats natural. Your in bars, not museums. The people your around understand that this is a natural part figuring out your true SL, but many don't have the social maturity to let it roll off their backs. Don't let this discourage you, the APA can be fun.
 
That is how it is when you first start in the APA and have any kind of talent. People complain at first, and thats natural. Your in bars, not museums. The people your around understand that this is a natural part figuring out your true SL, but many don't have the social maturity to let it roll off their backs. Don't let this discourage you, the APA can be fun.

Well said, DS. I'm going into my 8th year of APA now, with maybe two or three sessions off at most. I still enjoy seeing many of the people that I've met and played against, so I stop by and watch them once in a while.

Back to what you said, though. As somebody improves, there will always be those matches where you play well that somebody will say, "You should be a 6, not a 5" and so on. These people don't usually see or remember the times when you were a 5 and played like a 3 or 4. If you play BCA, there will be the same thing, with people questioning the point handicap or whether you should be a B, A or Master. I've got two friends, one that's an APA 6 and another that's an APA 7. In BCA, the 6 was playing better in his matches and was rated higher in their points system, even though the 7 would still be a favorite. You never know how well you're going to play, so just go out there and have fun. That, and try to improve no matter what you're rated. Once you max out at 7 or 9, play one that's strong.. ;)
 
i have been a pool player on and off for more than 35 years and have never been a member of any league. always heard that BCA was better than APA as far as rules. (i don't like "slop" shots either.) i had also heard that there is a lot of "drama" going on every night of league play. however, i just moved to this area about 3 onths ago and have a hard time finding a game (i like 14.1 and 8 ball). at the 14.1 league the other night i was invited to join a team with APA. i joined 2 weeks ago but could not play the first night so, this past monday night was my first night to play. i don't know much about the rules except you get to slop in the shots. like everyone, i have good shooting days and bad shooting days. one day i shoot like a 6 and another day like a strong 4. but i was told that as a new member i would start as a "4" and be adjusted accordingly after. that night was one of my "good" nights, making my 3 rail banks etc......later i played a "6" and we went hill hill and i came out on top. i heard whispers from the members of the opposing team that i was shooting like a "7" etc. it is true that that night was one of my better nights. so this past weds night i have my 14.1 league and the guys who had me join their team with APA. they said that one of the members of the opposing team had sent a complaint to APA about my being a 6 or 7 and coming in as a "4" etc......and our team should have sent me in as a 6. yaddy yaddi yaddi......so tell me, is this how it is in the leagues? i really don't need any more drama in my life at the moment. also, was i supposed to go in rated higher than a "4"? like weds night with the 14.1 match i shot like a "3"!! :angry: do i wear armor next monday night or just tell the other teams to "f" off? at least i do not "sandbag"!
If you don't want or need drama in your life right now I have one suggestion:

Quit the APA and don't ever look back!

Being a 35-year veteran of the game, I am sure you have seen, heard and experienced more than your fair share of poolroom drama, and if you are now looking to have some fun, relax and play a gentleman's game, then APA is not for you.

All you have to do is perform a search on these forums and you will find a multitude of threads consisting of pages and pages of APA-bashing from the haters, and angry defensiveness from the league-lovers.

You just have to decide what you are looking for.

I would guess that you probably made up your mind even before you finished typing your original post...:)
 
It is a common misconception that new APA male players start at SL four (new females at SL 3). WRONG! For both males and females.

They (lets refer to males, for purposes of this post) start as a "non-rated player" on that first night, which means they count as a SL 4 for purposes of the 23 rule. And they are in the SL 4 column on the SL chart in the upper left corner of the scoresheet, which will determine how many games they have to win vs the various opposing SLs they might face. New players also receive two time outs per game (page 25, para b), not the ONE TIME OUT alloted to established SL 4s.

Starting as a "non-rated player" and counting as SL 4 for 23 rule purposes IS NOT THE SAME THING as actually earning a SL 4 based on your actual play. Maybe a small distinction, but important.

New players DO NOT START as an established actual SL 4. When you say "I started as a SL 4 and that damn LO raised me to SL 6 after only one match" that's not true. You started as a non-rated player (counting as a SL 4 on first night) and played ONE MATCH at the level (innings, safes, games won, etc) of a SL 6. THAT is why you would be rated at SL 6 going into your week two match.

If you play well that first night and show up for week two to find you are now listed as a SL 6 (for instance) - this does not mean the LO raised you from SL 4 to SL 6. You were never an established SL 4 in the first place. It means the APA has only that ONE SCORE FROM ONE MATCH to rate you skill. From there on your SL is based on an average of your best 50% of your matches played. There are some other math factors that eventually are figured in once you accumulate more matches. But basically YOU determine your skill level, based on YOUR pool shooting. This is why it is not uncommon for new players (LOs define "new players" as having 10 total matches or less) to easily move their SL one or two categories (up or down) sometimes after every week - until they establish a minimum base of scores.

The point is new players DO NOT start with an assigned SL of 4, as many think. That is just your APA starting point for that one night. For the rest of your APA career your SL is determined by the scores you turn in, after processing by the league operator into the software.

Careful reading of page 54, para 2 explains it fairly well. Especially the sentence "As a result of your first match, a skill level is established ... for you."

And YES, we all know if you show signs of sandbagging the LO is supposed to do his/her job and raise your SL up to where the LOs feels it is fair to you AND your opponent. It's not that the LO "gets to do this", as many suspect. It's that the LO "is supposed to do this" to protect the interests of the vast majority of APA members, who are honest. Those honest players have no problem with this. The rest of you will be posting below to tell the world how horrible the APA has treated you. LOL.

FULL DISCLOSURE - as you may have guessed I am an APA LO. Since 1980. So there's a chance I have processed a few APA scoresheets, and dealt with a few sandbaggers, over the decades.

OK. Let the flames begin. LOL.
 
the Above is absolutely dead on. I recently found this out because I was in a head to head race with a guy for top gun, he beat a new player who wasn't estblished as a 4 yet, but thought he was gonna get the 4 points from the win, (which would have put him ahead of me by 1 point)

we tied because he only got 3 points and i got the top gun trophey because I beat him 2 time last session. I felt alittle strange about taking the trophey but I was playing well last season and probably wont qualify because of my work schedule and eyesight loss:grin-square:
 
It is a common misconception that new APA male players start at SL four (new females at SL 3). WRONG! For both males and females.

They (lets refer to males, for purposes of this post) start as a "non-rated player" on that first night, which means they count as a SL 4 for purposes of the 23 rule. And they are in the SL 4 column on the SL chart in the upper left corner of the scoresheet, which will determine how many games they have to win vs the various opposing SLs they might face. New players also receive two time outs per game (page 25, para b), not the ONE TIME OUT alloted to established SL 4s.

Starting as a "non-rated player" and counting as SL 4 for 23 rule purposes IS NOT THE SAME THING as actually earning a SL 4 based on your actual play. Maybe a small distinction, but important.

New players DO NOT START as an established actual SL 4. When you say "I started as a SL 4 and that damn LO raised me to SL 6 after only one match" that's not true. You started as a non-rated player (counting as a SL 4 on first night) and played ONE MATCH at the level (innings, safes, games won, etc) of a SL 6. THAT is why you would be rated at SL 6 going into your week two match.

If you play well that first night and show up for week two to find you are now listed as a SL 6 (for instance) - this does not mean the LO raised you from SL 4 to SL 6. You were never an established SL 4 in the first place. It means the APA has only that ONE SCORE FROM ONE MATCH to rate you skill. From there on your SL is based on an average of your best 50% of your matches played. There are some other math factors that eventually are figured in once you accumulate more matches. But basically YOU determine your skill level, based on YOUR pool shooting. This is why it is not uncommon for new players (LOs define "new players" as having 10 total matches or less) to easily move their SL one or two categories (up or down) sometimes after every week - until they establish a minimum base of scores.

The point is new players DO NOT start with an assigned SL of 4, as many think. That is just your APA starting point for that one night. For the rest of your APA career your SL is determined by the scores you turn in, after processing by the league operator into the software.

Careful reading of page 54, para 2 explains it fairly well. Especially the sentence "As a result of your first match, a skill level is established ... for you."

And YES, we all know if you show signs of sandbagging the LO is supposed to do his/her job and raise your SL up to where the LOs feels it is fair to you AND your opponent. It's not that the LO "gets to do this", as many suspect. It's that the LO "is supposed to do this" to protect the interests of the vast majority of APA members, who are honest. Those honest players have no problem with this. The rest of you will be posting below to tell the world how horrible the APA has treated you. LOL.

FULL DISCLOSURE - as you may have guessed I am an APA LO. Since 1980. So there's a chance I have processed a few APA scoresheets, and dealt with a few sandbaggers, over the decades.

OK. Let the flames begin. LOL.

Thank you.

Very clearly explained. Makes sense.
 
thanks for all the posts and "head's up" with APA. it all sounds reasonable to me. as for the sandbaggers, there is always one in the crowd. i have been told that to be in the APA, it is only for fun, no more no less. let the games begin!
 
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