They only thing that didnt make sense to me was the same 23 rule In 9 ball as 8 ball when you can have 9s on your team. I gave up. It was so hard to keep a team together as a 9. You just can’t have anyone going up. I enjoyed the points format though
No bias APA vs BCA
- Thread starter kleinm3351f
- Start date
Every bca and acs league in my town for the more then 30 plus years I’ve been playing is like that and it’s like that when you play in nationals as well. You don’t play races. You play 1 game per set and you can’t play the same player twice in a match. The nice thing about nationals is you use 2 tables so the match doesn’t last 4 hours so you don’t sit as long.
Why in nationals is all the team formats I watch a single game. I’ve never seen people play sets unless it’s singles divisions.
For a thread with "no bias" in the title of the original post, there seems to be a lot of bias in the replies, but that's not unexpected. I could reply with an APA-biased reply but I'll just say find the value/price combination that suits you. Maybe you find value in both - then do both. Maybe neither - then do neither. Talking about advantages and disadvantages is dependent on where someone finds value. Practically everything mentioned here as an advantage or disadvantage could be seen the other way by someone with different values.
I could get behind a league that plays actual matches instead of a single game at a time. I have not shot on a league for a few years now, it just wore me out, I would rather take the time I use to shoot pool to play in tournaments rather than leagues.
I would rather play tournaments but I work weekends so it just doesn’t work for me.
I haven’t read really any biased. It’s just people giving what they think are plus’s and minus in their own experience. I said I didn’t prefer the acs/bca format and why I didn’t but many people Do . In his initial post he is literally asking for people to give their personal experience and what the plus’s and minus’s are lol Just because everyone doesn’t kiss apa a$$ doesn’t mean they are being biased. I think apa is doing pretty well but not everyone is gonna like it lol
Never played bcapl. I think you have to head to Maryland from here for that.
Coos Cues
Coos Cues
I don't know about that I'm just talking about how you can structure your league play.
All bca in Houston is one game with each person on the team not sure about other parts of the country
Ohhh yeah you can do locally what ever you want. As long as you pay your yearly dues and have enough games in you can go play in nationals. As small as nationals is for acs now they can’t be choosy lol
I hover around 650 fargo and have been up near 680. I played BCA for many years (finished top player in league a few times) and have been to Vegas around 10 times. I stopped playing BCA and now play VNEA (which is almost identical to BCA in format/competition) and also play APA Masters.
In terms of enjoyment and league operation, I prefer the APA Masters format. It's a race to 7 each league night against one opponent-> playing both 8 ball and 9 ball. Jump, push, etc. all allowed. There are minor rule variations (like take what you make in 8-ball), but nothing crazy. I also prefer APA's Vegas experience and venue. They have an app that gives you push notifications and the matches are always on time. The Westgate is better than the Rio in my opinion.
That said, I have no data on the standard APA league format with 5 man teams and skill caps. But I can attest that APA Masters is quite enjoyable.
-td
In terms of enjoyment and league operation, I prefer the APA Masters format. It's a race to 7 each league night against one opponent-> playing both 8 ball and 9 ball. Jump, push, etc. all allowed. There are minor rule variations (like take what you make in 8-ball), but nothing crazy. I also prefer APA's Vegas experience and venue. They have an app that gives you push notifications and the matches are always on time. The Westgate is better than the Rio in my opinion.
That said, I have no data on the standard APA league format with 5 man teams and skill caps. But I can attest that APA Masters is quite enjoyable.
-td
Hint: when you get to a 9; they want you to migrate to a different league.
USAPL is Fargo handicapped (effectively the sister league of BCAPL) and you play a match format. The APP will generate a race to ball count based on Fargo rates... so 8/9/10 ball use ball counts kinda like APA but with notable differences.
1) The winner of the rack receives 14 points no matter what.
2) The loser in 8-ball receives 1 point for each ball of theirs no longer on the table
3) The loser in 9/10-ball receives 1 point for each ball they actually made
4) No match ends mid-rack, even if the winner is already determined - the points still matter.
5) If both players are within 14 points of winning, it's "hill-hill" race and the winner of that rack wins the match.
Since the money ball is worth so much, unless you are a massive underdog you can't win without winning a few racks. Typically it takes 3-4 wins to win the match +a few other balls made in your losses. However, this means match ends a bit sooner. Our double Jeopardy league normally is done by 10:30PM.
1) The winner of the rack receives 14 points no matter what.
2) The loser in 8-ball receives 1 point for each ball of theirs no longer on the table
3) The loser in 9/10-ball receives 1 point for each ball they actually made
4) No match ends mid-rack, even if the winner is already determined - the points still matter.
5) If both players are within 14 points of winning, it's "hill-hill" race and the winner of that rack wins the match.
Since the money ball is worth so much, unless you are a massive underdog you can't win without winning a few racks. Typically it takes 3-4 wins to win the match +a few other balls made in your losses. However, this means match ends a bit sooner. Our double Jeopardy league normally is done by 10:30PM.
Well that’s kind of silly. I don’t have to migrate to another league playing apa 8 ball. It’s easy for a 7 to still fit on a team with the 23 rule but yeah I do Play apa masters now.
"Pluses and minuses in their own experience" - turning one's own experience into a plus or a minus nearly always requires bias. It's not good or bad, just bias. Even the question in the OP's original post shows bias - he says both leagues have pluses and minuses, then asks for "advantages/disadvantages, if any disadvantages" to BCA. Because this forum shows a clear bias in favor of BCA (again, not good or bad), his expectations are biased. I'm not listing any advantages or disadvantages of either, I'm just objecting to his use of the term "no bias".
Willowbrook Wolfy
Going pro
I’m the opposite way on this one. I think APA 9 ball is actually more difficult. Once you get up to the higher levels you have to show some speed to win. Even when playing lesser ranked players. Since it’s by the ball you can’t just leave small runs out there for your opponent to clean up the table or you end up losing. So you either have to show your offense or safety a bunch. Either way you have to show something to win.
This is going to sound like I’m a sandbagger, but that’s not it. I was a 7 in 9 since starting APA. Once I became an 8 and 10 balls higher to win I tend to lose by a few balls or win. I’m 1-6 this session and still have 8ppm. You’d think it would be lower than that since you can only get 8 points max for a loss. But Ive always won more racks. So what I’m trying to say is APA forces you to play your offensive speed or closer to it if you want to win matches. Or you have to play more like you are playing against a higher level when you get to the higher skill levels. Even against lower skilled players or you end up losing. Other formats you don’t have to as much. I only do as much as I need to to win. APA I have to do more than I want to.
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kleinm3351f
New member
This has been a great thread for me, the poster. By and large I was just trying to avoid the APA sucks, switch to BCA categorical statement which isn’t very helpful. There have been many great pluses and minuses put forth on both sides.
For whether a particular league in a particular area is a good one, handicapping approaches and formats take a back seat to
(1) Is the league run efficiently with leadership that deserves and has the respect of the players?
(2) Do influencer players support the league and encourage a good attitude about the competition?
If (1) and (2) are in place, all of the formats/approaches discussed are good enough that it can be a good league. And without (1) and (2), no format/approach is good enough to make up for it.
Don't get me wrong: I spend a lot of time thinking about the pluses and minuses of different ways of doing things. It's just that when someone says "I've played ### league and I don't like it," there's a decent chance they're passing judgment on the league operator.