No Master players playing on open teams

[Duane Tuula]

Ratings Are Troublesome

I have to agree that I don't see the system as broken so what's the need for a fix. Anytime you rate players you create a high & low end within that division. The rating system in the thread http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=15878
seems to be generally acceptable however in many of the responses you will see most people rate themselves as between levels.

The BCAPL moves up 64 open players to masters division. Yet, my experience tells me that players who finished in 33 - 64 will have no luck in the masters divsion. Based on what I have seen over the last 15 years I would also say the top 16 should have been labeled a master player before the tournament started. The same situation occurs with moving top senior players to master. Only the seniors who should have been masters anyhow will be competive in the masters division. Those who simply have a good tournament and finish in the top 8 will find the masters divison too tough.

The problem therefore is rating players correctly before a tournament. Allowing a master player on an open team is not the problem. Many areas and leagues only have one or two master level players. Should those players pick up 3 or 4 average players and play on a master's team? Should those players form 2 open teams? I know what my answer would be.

National/regional amatuer events need to work more closely with league operators to more clearly define open/master players. Creating more divsions only creates more decisons. Work with what we have and be fair!

 

[APAgeek6]

What he said!!!!!!

 

[sharandrew]

Agreed. I will continue showing up regardless, because I always have a great time during the Vegas trip. But the Masters division, at least before the addition of the GM, has always been tough action.

The payouts are much worse, but it's a smaller field. And half the sets are basically coin flips anyway, because nobody in that division really ever misses.

Anyway, playing in the individual masters division is not really a problem. One thing I would hope is that nobody in the masters gets raised to a grand master based on regulation-size table ability. Bar table 8-ball is a different game, and when you think of the best (Kirkwood, Edey, Pickering, Wines, Tarangeau, etc..), they all play a ton of small-table pool. They're killers on a big table too, but I think that to qualify for a GM, you should be a known bar table player, or come in the top 4 of the masters division.

However, this idea about no master-level player on an Open TEAM... that is very upsetting. I love competing in the team event. I play in NYC, where we have a huge BCA league system. As far as I know, there has never been a masters-level team representing NYC, though. And if we can't put one together here, I don't know how a lot of other places with smaller systems could. (I believe there are 4 master players in NYC, and one of them has quit pool, lol.) Sure, we could put together a team, but I don't think it would be very competitive in that division. And there wouldn't be much incentive to play with us for the lower-level players we'd have to add, since they'd feel like they couldn't compete in that division.

I don't know... it's a tricky situation, but I think the previous system wasn't broken enough to warrant such a dramatic "fix".

- Steve

Great opinions............Open teams with master players on them always win. open players have complained. Now these team that have should be masters on them play up. it solves one main problem, if you can limit the grand master players on these teams you solve the other problem.

 

[Duane Tuula]

Great opinions............Open teams with master players on them always win. open players have complained. Now these team that have should be masters on them play up. it solves one main problem, if you can limit the grand master players on these teams you solve the other problem.

Open teams with one legit master player AND one or two players who should be rated master players (but are not) usually win. What about a team with one legit master player that does not even cash? That does happen as well. The problem does not lie with having one master player on an open team.

 

[mr clean]

Open teams with one legit master player AND one or two players who should be rated master players (but are not) usually win. What about a team with one legit master player that does not even cash? That does happen as well. The problem does not lie with having one master player on an open team.

I am an open player in the wbca and believe it or not, I disagree with this new rule , at least on the local level. In our league alone, we will lose at least three teams, not to mention that the masters on these teams will not be coming to play in the singles events, so each field decreases.
I don't have the answers,on a personal note, I worked my but off to get a master comfortable enough to play on our open team, and pulled it off this yearjust to find out he can't play with us now, very dissapointed

 

[sharandrew]

I am an open player in the wbca and believe it or not, I disagree with this new rule , at least on the local level. In our league alone, we will lose at least three teams, not to mention that the masters on these teams will not be coming to play in the singles events, so each field decreases.
I don't have the answers,on a personal note, I worked my but off to get a master comfortable enough to play on our open team, and pulled it off this yearjust to find out he can't play with us now, very dissapointed

Thanks for your comments: The problem is that this topic has been discussed for awhile. You must not have been aware of this the past year. Some of this is due to the past president desertion. This is not a new topic and some act as if it is. You likely received no mention from your operator about the topic or that you didn't look to the web site or the notices at the past 8ball tournament asking for input. I am sorry but many feel this is going to be better and we have to support the chance to see it work. Look at the big picture not just how it will effect your team. The psychology of change is well known and you are likely proof of that

 

[mr clean]

Thanks for your comments: The problem is that this topic has been discussed for awhile. You must not have been aware of this the past year. Some of this is due to the past president desertion. This is not a new topic and some act as if it is. You likely received no mention from your operator about the topic or that you didn't look to the web site or the notices at the past 8ball tournament asking for input. I am sorry but many feel this is going to be better and we have to support the chance to see it work. Look at the big picture not just how it will effect your team. The psychology of change is well known and you are likely proof of that

I guess I feel sorry for the master players, they seem to get kicked around alot for their achievements. As for the master singles field,what I hear the most is why bother,just giving my money to Glen,Stan, Rich.
Put these peaple in their own field and we'll get more players in the masters,IMHO

 

[sharandrew]

I guess I feel sorry for the master players, they seem to get kicked around alot for their achievements. As for the master singles field,what I hear the most is why bother,just giving my money to Glen,Stan, Rich.
Put these peaple in their own field and we'll get more players in the masters,IMHO

Put them in their own event is right. i hope that it happens some day. but till it is built up you have to do something.

You would be valuable..... I suggest that you join the ratings committee and bump them up.... I want to.

 

[almer]

Put them in their own event is right. i hope that it happens some day. but till it is built up you have to do something.

You would be valuable..... I suggest that you join the ratings committee and bump them up.... I want to.

The team that won the intermediate in the vnea in vegas had eric h,felix beardy,jason klatt,barry maclean,all strong master players on it.The problem with rating players is very hard.the intermediate teams are allowed 1 master but there are a lot of players that are masters that slip through the cracks.When you end up with 3 or 4 masters on a open or intermediate team all other teams either stack a team or can not win.If every player or league operator would play where they know they belong there would never be any problems.