no smoking as of 4-15... ways to get around?

[smittie1984]

Your best way to fight it is to go to whoever put the law in place and fight it. But being in New Jersey and it being sort of a nanny state I doubt there is much you can do. But it's worth a fight.

I think smoking is idiotic. I have more respect for someone smoking crack than I do someone smoking cigarettes. Crack you atleast get high.

With that being said I don't think there should be laws mandating where you can smoke when it comes to private property.

Here in Atlanta and surrounding areas you can have a smoking place only if it is 18 and up.

The Pool Room I believe has smoking in Marietta. But no smoking in Duluth. I always go to Duluth because I don't smoke. His place seems to be doing very well. It may not be as packed as Cues 2. But you do get less grundgy players. And the better players (I'm not talking skill wise) tend to make more money and spend more money.

And nothing does crack me up more than watching smokers in the middle of winter all bundled together in their designated smoking pen getting as many puffs in as quickly as possible just to rush back inside.

 

[ridewiththewind]

It's for the best. There was a time when chemical plants dumped in our rivers, places that manufactured auto batteries so polluted areas they still can't be inhabited. Just because it may impact a business is not a reason to allow them to do what ever they want. No one has made smoking illegal, Your welcome to sit home and kill yourself, it is just becoming more difficult for you to kill me with your addiction.

Fine, I can stay at home and kill myself with the smoking ( I got a pool table), when you sit at home and drink, so that you are not getting behind the wheel of vehicle weighing over a ton to get home from the bar in. Tit for tat. There really is no distinction here....just alot of propaganda.

Oh, and before you make the argument that you don't drive for an hour after your last drink......in my MSF class.....that's motorcycle safety training to the uninitiated....we were taught that for EVERY drink, there should be an hour wait before attempting to hit the road. It takes the body that long to process it. If you're having a couple of beers or drinks every hour, then you need to sit, alcohol free, at least an hour for each drink before you no longer pose a risk to those on the roads. Can you honestly say that you do that?! I don't think there are too many that can.

Even better, since most buildings recycle their air....and that the intakes for those systems is often at street level, thereby sucking in harmful gas emmisions, why don't all you holier-than-thou non-smokers go outside where there is the big wide open spaces containing 'fresh' air for all of you to share, and leave the polluted air indoors to those of us who are polluting our lungs anyways....sounds like a good deal to me!

Lisa

 

[Rich R.]

In Maryland, the smoking ban is not state wide, but a few counties have passed it.
The smoking ban went into affect shortly after the first of the year, in the area where I play in a league. The ban has not hurt my league and, in fact, we have two more teams this session than we had in the last session. Also, all tables not used by the league, have been rented almost every week, when I am there. This was not the case in the past.
If the smoking ban has hurt this establishment, they would have to show me how. By my observation, their buisness has increased.

 

[Jimmy M.]

I love the no-smoking law. To be able to go play pool, not breathe a ton of smoke and smell like an ashtray afterward is great, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ridewiththewind]

The point I am trying to make here is this....in the past, you had a choice as to if you wanted to frequent an establishment that allowed smoking or not. But, on the same token, no one gets to choose if someone climbs behind the wheel after drinking all night, and kills or maims someone. Fact is, you are more likely to be taken out by a drunk driver, than you are by being exposed to 'secondhand smoke' a few hours a week.

Some of y'all really need to do your own research here, and stop digesting what the government is feeding you. If good ol' Uncle Sam truly had your best interests at heart concerning your health, then why didn't they get a national healthcare initiative passed?! Why are they still allowing our rivers and streams, and yes, the very land itself, to continue to be polluted? Why, when the technology has been available for over 20yrs, are we still burning, and drilling, and fighting a war over fossil fuels?! And when that last pack of cigarettes has been taxed, what do you think they'll tax next, to fill that void?

Some of you need to wake up and smell the coffee! Our government does not give one rat's behind about you! They are just feeding you a lot of misinformation....a tactic they learned from the KGB, btw. We're killing our planet, and the wildlife that inhabits it, and you're selfish and narrow-minded enough to worry about 2nd hand smoke?! What's your excuse gonna be when there is no more clean air to breathe, or water to drink? Your (you think) pristine little pink lungs aren't gonna do you much good then, are they?!

Lisa

 

[cgriffin5]

I do not see how someone has the right to harm someone else. This applies to people who constantly have to breathe in smoke just because they play pool, or bowl, etc. If someone wants to kill themselve by smoking that is their right but they have no right to harm me or anyone else. When I hear smokers here in NJ talk on how this law is BS and how its never going to last and how they are going to smoke anyway it really makes me mad. It seems to me that most smokers simply do not care the effect their smoking can have on other people. I am not saying everyone in fact I know many many considerate smokers who always ask if they mind if they smoke. I always say I do not mind but I always do. It makes me sick to be honest. I dont see why I or any other non-smoker should have to do go to another pool hall or bowling alley because we do not feel like breathing in smoke.

 

[macguy]

Fine, I can stay at home and kill myself with the smoking ( I got a pool table), when you sit at home and drink, so that you are not getting behind the wheel of vehicle weighing over a ton to get home from the bar in. Tit for tat. There really is no distinction here....just alot of propaganda.

lisa

It is against the law to drink and drive. No one is telling you you can't smoke and just like the drinking and driving laws try to protect me from the drunk driver, the new smoking laws will hopefully protect me from your smoke as well. Me personally, I don't like being told what to do but I recognize that you can't do what ever you want if it is at the expense of others. There becomes a balance of rights involved and one side is always going to be unhappy. If you are unhappy you can always attempt to have the laws changed but in this case you wouldn't get much support.

It's funny, the human being may be the only animal on the planet that intentionally does things not in their own best interest and that's their right, as long as it doesn't interfere with someone else's rights and there in lies the debate. I am afraid my right not to be poisoned by your smoke is becoming the law of the land regardless what ever type of circular logic you attempt to spin. I'm not my brothers keeper and would never try or wish to try to tell someone how to live their life as long as it doesn't interfere with mine. Again, no one is telling you you can't smoke, smoke all you want.

 

[APA9]

Who's drinking? Everyone who doesn't want to breathe your smoke? This is a cute post though. I especially like the part about how our government is feeding us a bunch of crap about the dangers of second hand smoke. Cute indeed. All I read in this post is someone justifying why everyone can just choose to go where you are or not because you're going to smoke and that's that. That's so cute that I wish I could just pinch your little cheeks.

Fine, I can stay at home and kill myself with the smoking ( I got a pool table), when you sit at home and drink, so that you are not getting behind the wheel of vehicle weighing over a ton to get home from the bar in. Tit for tat. There really is no distinction here....just alot of propaganda.

Oh, and before you make the argument that you don't drive for an hour after your last drink......in my MSF class.....that's motorcycle safety training to the uninitiated....we were taught that for EVERY drink, there should be an hour wait before attempting to hit the road. It takes the body that long to process it. If you're having a couple of beers or drinks every hour, then you need to sit, alcohol free, at least an hour for each drink before you no longer pose a risk to those on the roads. Can you honestly say that you do that?! I don't think there are too many that can.

Even better, since most buildings recycle their air....and that the intakes for those systems is often at street level, thereby sucking in harmful gas emmisions, why don't all you holier-than-thou non-smokers go outside where there is the big wide open spaces containing 'fresh' air for all of you to share, and leave the polluted air indoors to those of us who are polluting our lungs anyways....sounds like a good deal to me!

Lisa

 

[pooltchr]

As I understand it, the NJ law specifically exempts Casinos. So whatever excuse they are using to promote the law is BS. If it's to protect employees, what about the employees in casinos? If it's to protect other customers, what about the other customers in casinos?
Why does the law not apply to casinos? MONEY!!!!! The casinos have enough to get whatever they need. Obviously they felt a smoking ban would not be good for their business. Maybe all the pool rooms in the state should add slot machines and blackjack tables.

My arguement against the law is that it's big brother government telling private businesses how to operate their business. If the pool room owners thought that banning smoking would be good for business, they would do it without any laws. If I own a business, I either need to provide an atmosphere my customers like, or they will go to my competator. If there is a market for smoke free pool rooms, some smart business person is going to open one up. Free enterprise works far better than government regulation.
JMHO
Steve

 

[PlynSets]

Land of the Free and home of the Brave... Well atleast home of the brave anyways..

I gotta appologize to you guys, I live in Cali and this state pretty much spearheaded this crap, as well as a million other crappy things that will be coming your way soon enough..

Seat Belt Laws
Helmet Laws
Smoking Laws
.10 BAC for DUI... eerrrr .08 for DUI scratch that, now the law is .08 (presumed impaired) .05+ officer discretion (that's less then a beer for most)
and on and on..

It's funny, I was watching some offroading videos that were actually shot in the middle east.. You know The "non Free" place and saw a bunch of guys on quads with no helmets, drinking beers.. Here I live in a "free" country but I couldn't go out on my property and sit up on top of a hill having a beer without risking getting a DUI a helmet ticket etc..? WTF?

DJ

 

[wannaplaySOME?]

still unanswered...

..the question of if you can become a private club to get around this, and if so what are the steps? are there fees? what are the restrictions?

this is what i really need to know

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

You ought to ask the owners at Chris's Billiards in Chicago what the new ban on smoking in the Windy City has done to their business in the past six months. They told me the bangers are headed to the burbs where they can shoot pool and smoke too. This anti-smoking stuff is the latest liberal political correctness afflicting us all. And I don't smoke cigarettes... A cigar once in a while, but not allowing smoking in the pool rooms won't keep me away. My friends? Several won't go to Chris's anymore. What's that worth to Chris's each month? Not chump change, I assure you.

Flex

For starters, it won't be long before the state of Illinois follows suit. Secondly, the smoking law isn't "liberal". New York City and New York State are run by the Republican Party and they're the ones that headed the anti-smoking laws. Anti-smoking policy has advocates on both sides of the fence which is why fighting it is a losing battle.

You say, I should call the owners of Chris'? I don't think I need to make a long-distance phone call. New York City is probably a better example of my point than any other place in the country. Will this law impact the night life? Yes. Will businesses suffer? Yes. Will the nightlife disappear? No. Will it restore to its original levels? Probably.

You just need to give people an opportunity to change their way of thinking. In the meanwhile, Chris' and any other poolroom about to undergo such a change should brace for hardtimes with the thought that business will eventually return.

 

[pete-biker]

..the question of if you can become a private club to get around this, and if so what are the steps? are there fees? what are the restrictions?

this is what i really need to know

Really, i don't have a clue, but i think that it might be possible to go around that law by having two different areas in pool hall. One with service on table area and that'll be no smoking and then another with "go and get your drinks from the bar" principle and that'll be the smoking area...so that way employees are protected not to work in smoky room. Of course you might need to have those areas totally separated and that smoking area might even need it's own air-co/ventilation not together with the non-smoking area.

 

[sharandrew]

Quit smoking!!!! all these rationalizations are based in addiction. why do you think that all this is happening?? SECOND HAND SOME for one and that somokers can not help themselfs so the state steps in to protect them and others. because if it were only on taxes everyone would be allowed to keep smoking, someone has keen moral awareness

 

[Flex]

For starters, it won't be long before the state of Illinois follows suit. Secondly, the smoking law isn't "liberal". New York City and New York State are run by the Republican Party and they're the ones that headed the anti-smoking laws. Anti-smoking policy has advocates on both sides of the fence which is why fighting it is a losing battle.

You say, I should call the owners of Chris'? I don't think I need to make a long-distance phone call. New York City is probably a better example of my point than any other place in the country. Will this law impact the night life? Yes. Will businesses suffer? Yes. Will the nightlife disappear? No. Will it restore to its original levels? Probably.

You just need to give people an opportunity to change their way of thinking. In the meanwhile, Chris' and any other poolroom about to undergo such a change should brace for hardtimes with the thought that business will eventually return.

You may say what you want about anti-smoking laws not being liberal. And just because New York Republicans want something doesn't make it right. Those NY RINOS (Republicans In Name Only, i.e. really democrats at heart) aren't exactly my cup of tea, and I lived there for 10 years and have a pretty good idea about them.

Actually, if I were you I'd not waste money making a long distance phone call, (which doesn't cost me anything if calling in the evening or during the weekends, probably does though in the Big Apple.) Just take my word for the impact it's having on Chris's.

As for the second hand smoke issue, it's far from resolved scientifically...

(Check out this link: http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_m2/TI40481951.html )

even if the hysteria about it has taken hold.

Mr. Rosenstock, you sure seem to like the nanny state... Perhaps it's something in that New York air you're beathing...

Cheers!

Flex

 

[degenrat]

Ridethewind: You say nonsmokers have a choice of frequenting smoking vs non smoking establishments? As it relates to pool i disagree completely. I am not aware of a single bar in nj that was no smoking before the ban. And stop with the drinking and driving reference it's rediculous. i don't drink and drive. there you go, arguement lost.

If you don't think it sucks for nonsmokers to be stuck in a 20x20 room while 15 people chain smoke for 5 hours straight then you are a fool.

I go home reaking of smoke, and with a sore throat.

And i am a recent convert to the nonsmoking side, so i am not biased.

 

[MHarris]

WPS,

I don't think you could get around the smoking ban by becoming a private club. I remember hearing something to that effect in the last week. I know Jose was looking for ways around it, and becoming a private club was an idea, but that idea was dropped pretty quickly. The person who would know for sure in the area is Howard, whose future in-laws own a private club in the area.

As far as becoming a private club goes, that's something that requires approval by the township, and fees and restrictions vary from township to township. If this is the site I'm thinking of, then I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this were a long, painful, and expensive process in that township.

MH

 

[Cornerman]

so smoking was banned in NJ as of 4-14-06 at 12:01am....

I have a few questions...

1. Is there a way around this?

2. If you make it a private club, I know you can then permit smoking, however, how do you do this and how much does it cost?

No idea, but that is a possibility. There are a handful of bars that I've heard that have done this.

That being said, I'm a member of my local Eagles club. We have two 9' Olhausen pros in pretty good condition. That is, I can play for free any time I want. But, ever since the no-smoking ban has taken place for public places, if for some reason I'm going to play pool, I rarely consider my club first which has plenty of smokers. I never thought it would matter one way or another, but the no-smoke factor has just been so good that going into the club now isn't as enjoyable for me as it was a few years ago.

3. Also, for those of you that live in states with this already enforced... apparently NJ is also enforcing that you cannot smoke within 25 feet of the building? is this like this in the other states?

If this is a law, there isn't much enforcing going on in Massachusetts.

An outdoor smoking pavillion would be something that a bar/restaurant owner could setup to keep their patrons returning. I don't know what the rules are about pavillions, however. A new place just opened up close to me, and they have a pretty long semi-enclosed awning that at the very least keeps the smokers protected from the rain and wind.


Fred

 

[Cornerman]

That's pie in the sky stuff, IMHO. Besides the anti-smoking laws, video poker is taking an effect too. This doesn't mean poolrooms will close, but some may. One of the folks who works at Chris's but doesn't smoke said that something like 70% of pool players smoke. I have no idea where she got that. But I see my friends heading out the door to smoke. Happened night before last during a tournament, several times.

There really isn't much of a debate here. If Chris' suffers from a no-smoking ban, then I'll speak for the entire pool community to say that that would just suck. Simple as that.

But, hopefully, they don't suffer, or in the end, their number will rebound. I can only say for Massachusetts, that in big city pool halls, some died, some thrived. I see small city pool halls on the verge of dying, but I can't attribute that to non-smoking as much as I can to other factors. And of course, I see mega upscale non-poolplayer places like Racks (shoulder to shoulder with people at night), Jillians (2000+ people per night?), and Boston Billiards seemingly un-phased.

I think Bob Campbell (All About Pout Magazine) closed his doors during the first year or so of the no-smoking ban. I think it was because his business wasn't able to sustain through the lull.

In our league, less than half of our league smokes. Those who do have been going outside to smoke for a few years now, so it's just another ritual routine added to their playing.

I hope the best for Chris' and all the other old-time pool halls in the country. I think Hard Times survived and was pretty busy when I visited last.

Fred

 

[catscradle]

...Yet, smokers are treated as if they are second class citizens. That's pretty much the bottom line...Lisa

IMO, that argument against smoking bans is nonsense. The only legit argument against smoking bans is the question as to whether or not the room owner's rights are being violated.