Off the rail

M

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This has probably been discussed before. I tried searching for it but couldn't find anything.

I can usually make the following two shots about 90% of the time.

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CueTable Help




But when I attempt this shot. I usually only make it maybe 20% of the time.

CueTable Help


I've tried everything. Getting feet in the same position everytime. Check alignment with head high. Chin on cue, elbow high, forearm and wrist straight, stay down. I still feel like I'm guessing whether or not I'm lined up. I shot this shot probably 300 times in the last couple weeks and still cannot figure it out. Sometimes it goes straight in and most the time it goes a little to the left and comes off the rail and hits the point.
Any tips on how to "own" this shot?
 
Shots ...

The 2nd and 3rd shots are difficult shots for me. I go into my 'be extremely careful mode' where I line up on the shot, think about my form and stroke (saying straight and smooth to myself), and then shoot the shot. Being only 5'7", it is sometimes a little difficult to cue the cue ball just right when it is up against the rail on a straight in (as it is for a jump shot sometimes too).

On the 3rd shot, I shoot that with a little upper left english to hold the object ball straighter with a nice smooth stroke following up a little.
 
Snapshot9 said:
... On the 3rd shot, I shoot that with a little upper left english to hold the object ball straighter with a nice smooth stroke following up a little.
Click to expand...


What do you mean hold it straighter? It is a straight in shot. Do you mean because it is by the rail?
 
the first shot shouldnt be a problem. however, the last two are difficult shots, and i would think the shot with the cue ball on the long rail is the more difficult.

Tom "Dr Cue" Rossman explained these shots to me this way. i had pretty much specifically asked him during one of our sessions about these types of shots. i came away with three (3) things to consider:

1) use a shorter stroke when the cue ball is on the rail
2) a pro, in his/her mind, will not even see the rail impeding his/her shot. it doesnt exist. its as if they are shooting a follow shot.
3) practice these shots progressively, moving the ball a few inches back each time.

DCP
 
Usually when I miss here, it is because I didn't stay down on the shot. I have noticed myself pull up out of the shot for some reason.

Once I asked a friend of mine who plays well about tis type of shot, and he says that he looks at the cue ball last on most rail shots. I can't look at the cue ball last myself, but that was another thought I had heard.

Mike
 
The difference between the second and third shot is on the second shot I can use a longer bridge which helps me sight better.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
1) use a shorter stroke when the cue ball is on the rail
2) a pro, in his/her mind, will not even see the rail impeding his/her shot. it doesnt exist. its as if they are shooting a follow shot.
3) practice these shots progressively, moving the ball a few inches back each time.

DCP
Click to expand...

holy sh1t, i agree with dcp. this technique/mindset helps plenty good.

-s
 
mnShooter said:
The difference between the second and third shot is on the second shot I can use a longer bridge which helps me sight better.
Click to expand...

it's probably cause you're trying to fit too big of a stroke into that short bridge...concentrate on the stroke you're using in this situation.

-s
 
I make the 3rd shot maybe 40% of the time, when I miss it it's usually because I put right spin on the ball being so close to the rail. When I make it I have perfectly straight top spin and just enough stroke to get it to the pocket.

I hate that shot! As a matter of fact I hate all shots when the cue ball is against the rail.
 
"a pro, in his/her mind, will not even see the rail impeding his/her shot. it doesnt exist. its as if they are shooting a follow shot."


i love that line. next time i have a difficult shot with the cue ball on the cushion i'm gonna tell myself that to pump myself up!
 
mnShooter said:
What do you mean hold it straighter? It is a straight in shot. Do you mean because it is by the rail?
Click to expand...

Just like an 'inside english' will hold the object ball straighter, just using high or high right will have a tendency to throw the object ball to the left (into the long rail), that by using high left (11:15-11:30), SO if you do hit the object ball just a little right of where you intended too, it will hold the object on a straighter line, and even it it does hit the long rail, the ball will usually slide on in the pocket. Try it several times and you will see for yourself.
 
Mike Templeton said:
Once I asked a friend of mine who plays well about tis type of shot, and he says that he looks at the cue ball last on most rail shots. I can't look at the cue ball last myself, but that was another thought I had heard.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine why you can't look at the cue ball last. Your friend has it right. When shooting from the rail (or over an obstructing object ball, or jacked up), one's bridge is relatively unstable and you are more likely to miss hitting the cue ball point of aim. Fixing your gaze on that point helps your stroke stay on target. In these cases, it's more helpful to keep your eye on the cue ball than on the OB.
 
for the last 2 shots, I find it usefull to widen up my stance as well as shorten up my stroke. I also conciously either try to count to 3 after making contact with the CB or waiting till the OB has dropped or stopped(hopefully dropped). This forces me to stay down on the ball.

There's no doubt about it these are difficult shots, but proper alignment and a smooth stroke help up your odds.
 
The reason for aiming at the CB is so that you hit the CB on its vertiical axis. The slightest left or right of vertical will curve the CB. And this affect is exaggerated the further you get from the horizontal axis. Remember that you're shooting down into the CB which imparts some masse'. The masse' doesn't matter if its on its vertical axis, but it means a lot for any left or right component. After you get everything lined up, focus on hitting the CB on its vertical axis.
 
I find for long straight in shots (of the rail or not), what helps me is to aim where you want the object ball to go, not at the point on the object ball to make it go there.

This helps you visualize the full path of the stroke you need to make a little better... and gives an easier to visualize point to aim at which seems to straighten out your stroke.

Chris
 
I was just helping someone with this shot last night.

This is what I told the player and it did help them, maybe it will help you too.

Two things are important 1. relaxed 2. straight stroke

Relaxed

Make yourself feel the weight of your body on both feet. This does not mean you are leaning back, you are simply getting relaxed and stable so you are not tight as sometimes happens on difficult shots. Make sure that you feel the same weight on your feet after the ball is pocketed.

Straight

See the spot on the OB to the pocket and keep more focus on it. Take your stroke back as if a big rubber band were holding the cue from going back (like isometrics) As you take your stroke back, take it away in direct line away from the intended spot on the OB. As you stroke forward make sure your tip follows through to the target spot on the OB. Any incomplete stroke by not following through will cause the tip to push or cause unwanted CB contact.


In summary; stable by feeling the weight on your feet from start to finish and straight back and follow through. Actually this player started making a much higher percent of other shots as well using this.


If this help, great then...
 
This shot requres NO english!

I read all of these posts, and nobody has mentioned the most important aspect about stroking through the CB, when the CB is frozen on the rail. Shooting the shot with sidespin, ANY sidespin, is ludicrous, especially since this is a straight in shot. The length of the backswing and stroke is individual, and imo, will be dependant only on how far you want the CB to run, after pocketing the OB. As Dr. Cue told DCP, shortening the backswing can help with these shots, and generally, minimal speed is needed just to pocket the OB. The biggest impediment to pocketing the second and third shots, accurately and consisently, is LIFTING the cuestick off of your bridge hand, during the shot. I see many, many players (including pros) lifting the cue off of the rail, as a part of their stroke. This will work for some players, but definitely not for the majority, and certainly not consistently. It amazes me that almost any poolplayer understands the negative impact of a "poke" stroke, to having any kind of consistent effect on the CB...yet, the same player doesn't understand how critical a smooth delivery and followthrough is, when shooting off the rail.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
I read all of these posts, and nobody has mentioned the most important aspect about stroking through the CB, when the CB is frozen on the rail. Shooting the shot with sidespin, ANY sidespin, is ludicrous, especially since this is a straight in shot. The length of the backswing and stroke is individual, and imo, will be dependant only on how far you want the CB to run, after pocketing the OB. As Dr. Cue told DCP, shortening the backswing can help with these shots, and generally, minimal speed is needed just to pocket the OB. The biggest impediment to pocketing the second and third shots, accurately and consisently, is LIFTING the cuestick off of your bridge hand, during the shot. I see many, many players (including pros) lifting the cue off of the rail, as a part of their stroke. This will work for some players, but definitely not for the majority, and certainly not consistently. It amazes me that almost any poolplayer understands the negative impact of a "poke" stroke, to having any kind of consistent effect on the CB...yet, the same player doesn't understand how critical a smooth delivery and followthrough is, when shooting off the rail.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

I think this thread illustrates how badly this forum needs a "Ask the Expert" column or thread on various topics.

People are asking good questions but unfortunately, they are getting a lot of bad responses to go along with one (or more) correct answers.

Surely, this forum can come up with a creative approach in which people can ask questions of the experts (without getting bogged down by the forum bashers and the trolls).
 
Actually I like getting a variety of responses. If Scott or Randy or any of the other instructors knew everything they would surely be pro wouldn't they? Anyways I like to try out the different suggestions and see what works for me.
 
mnShooter said:
Actually I like getting a variety of responses. If Scott or Randy or any of the other instructors knew everything they would surely be pro wouldn't they? Anyways I like to try out the different suggestions and see what works for me.
Click to expand...

So far, you've gotten 13 different "expert" opinions on how to shoot shots from the rail. All 13 opinions can't be right here. While the instructors obviously don't know everything, I would rather start with what they have to say first before considering "non-expert advice."

Do you plan to check out the 13 opinions in this thread to find out which person's advice is correct? :rolleyes: :eek:

Also, consider that a lot of people read these threads so that we can also learn from other people's experiences. To get 13 different opinions only confuses the issue, which is why I'd rather have an expert answer the question first, followed by additional questions or comments later.
 
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