Old Billiard (Carom) Table Cushion Replacment, updated.

[PenwaJo]

I have an old BBC Narragansett Billiard table (carom) (4.5'x9'), last patent on the sticker is Oct 18th 1899. This table was in my parents house when they bought it in 1971. From all appearances back then, it had been there a very long time. Felt was very thin and torn in a few places, yet cushions were still responsive. Table was given to me for Christmas in 1999. I disassembled it and moved it to my home. I quickly replaced the cusions and felt. Sadly, I have no record of the cushions I bought, but believe that I had reached out to Brunswick to ascertain the correct profile. I put Gorina carom cloth on it. Sadly, table had to be disassembled 5 years later due to divorce. Table then was moved from storage to storage to garage to basement finally to yet another garage before being able to be reassembled nearly 20 years later. In storage the table saw temperature swings from -15 to 90 degrees. I literally just got everything back together this week after putting new felt on the table only. Figure I would wait on the rails, depending on how things came together. Sadly, the cushions are dead. I have torqued the bolts as tight as I can get them, and maybe 1 cushion is fair, the other 3 just sound dead (thud), with little response. Questions I have regarding all of this:
1. What manufacturer should I look to for the cushions. Original to table would have been Monarch K-55 cushions. I believe that what I put on are K-55, but no idea who the MFG is.
2. What glue is recommended for putting these cushions on?
3. As this is what I call an "Antique" table, it has "Antique" parts. The rail bolts are the old style that had a round head with with two dimples that received the bit for tightening. (see pics). I am very curious if anyone has any suggestions for modern day replacements. These are very hard to torque due to the fact that you have to have so much lateral to keep the bit seated.

Thanks for any help advice provided!

 

[Texas Carom Club]

klematch p37 rubber is the choice of carom tables today
sub rails probably would have to be rebuilt to use them

its just a monster task to get it up to speed with a modern table
much money and time will have to be invested

 

[PenwaJo]

yea... I am not uo for modding the rails at all. Just looking for the best option for a replacement. I know that what I put on 24 years ago were nearly identical in profile to the cushions I removed.

 

[PenwaJo]

Any reccomendations for glue?

 

[Tablemaker]

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[garczar]

Call Classic and talk to Ken Hash.

 

[PenwaJo]

Not sure if I am looking for advice or just feel like sharing. Antique Brunswick Balke Collender carom billiard table. I put new cushions on it in 2000, no idea how old the previous ones were, but I do recall them being almost porous like disintegrating in your hand.

New ones now due to table sitting in un heated storage areas for last 24 years. Now with new cushions in hand, I started the process of removing the old ones.

Started with end rails first, old feather strips came out easy, note that I did not replace them 24 years ago, just used what was there. One rail strip was in two pieces, with nails on each end (again), when I did this 24 years ago, I reused it exactly how it was when I found it, in 2 pieces. The other end rail feather stip was one piece, no nails.

The side rails were a differren story. Both had multiple nails, one also wrapped in masking tape. Sadly while removing these this weekend, one strip is now in about 8 piees and the other is in 4. I know I will not be able to get original replacements and will have to make them myself, and sadly due to travel issues, will have to use what materials I have on hand. I have no hard wood on hand, so not sure what I will do.

Another item I find intersting, is where the end of cushion meets the end of the rail. I do not know the name of the piece, but I want to call it an end block. These are not part the rail wood itself, but rather glued on. 2 of them came off when removing the cushions, so I will have to glue back on. These are what the cloth is stapled to on the ends.

Looking at the set of nail holes and staple holes, I believe that this will be the 4th or 5th time the rails see new cloth. One install actually used nails for the cloth.

One definite question is how clean does the wood have to be for the cement (Barge's) to work.

 

[PenwaJo]

Some pics.

 

[3kushn]

I'll let the Pro Mechanics answer the rubber question. But on my old 1920's Brunswick I purchased Kleber rubber and hired a cabinet maker to modify the angle on rail to comply with European style 4 sided rubber.
I'll search around to find the instructions ,from Bob Leatherby. I may have lost them although.

A little trick to eliminate using a Bit Brace to tighten the rail bolts.

Take that spanner with you to a store that sells deep sockets and find the size (I forget) where the tang engages the tool perfectly. It's something like around 7/16" deep well. Then go to the isle where there's JB Weld and get that.

Fill the socket with the JB but plug the square with something so that doesn't get filled with the Weld. Insert your spanner into the goop and wipe it clean. Let sit overnight. Now you can use a torque wrench set @ 12ft/lbs to properly torque those bolts, plus you'll have much more control with that tool.

If you don't have a torque wrench and don't want to buy one, you can use a ratchet, BUT
Do Not Tighten As Much As You Can!!
You risk cracking/breaking a slate.

I love T-Rails but one of the design faults is, you CAN easily break a slate if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[PenwaJo]

I actually bought a new spanner, that fits better, the length of the spikes (for lack of better term), are the equal. The antique spanner bit I have has unequal lengths. Oddly, I like that the old one fit in my brace / bit, whereas the new one has a 3/4" head to fit a socket. Downside is that the new spanner does not stay in the socket. As soon as you move, it falls out. One thing I found odd, and did not pay attention to this when setting up 24 years ago, was that the rail bolts did not have washers, or if it did, they were not gathered when it was disassembled. That being said, when I reassemble, I will certainly use washers, as you noted, it will be very easy to over tighten and crack the slate.

 

[PenwaJo]

Screwed up. So I bought new cloth for the table and installed it, played on it for about a month before disassembly to work on the rails. Honestly did not even notice that when I bought the new cloth, it was a for a pool table, not a carom table (the rail cloth was pre-cut and I never checked it). So now that I am getting closer to getting the rails done, I need cloth. One thought is to simply cut up the old Gorina Granito cloth that was on the table, granted it is 24 years old, but did not see much play time, other option is to find a source for rail cloth only. I just started looking today, but nothing yet.

 

[Dartman]

Screwed up. So I bought new cloth for the table and installed it, played on it for about a month before disassembly to work on the rails. Honestly did not even notice that when I bought the new cloth, it was a for a pool table, not a carom table (the rail cloth was pre-cut and I never checked it). So now that I am getting closer to getting the rails done, I need cloth. One thought is to simply cut up the old Gorina Granito cloth that was on the table, granted it is 24 years old, but did not see much play time, other option is to find a source for rail cloth only. I just started looking today, but nothing yet.

You will probably have to get a complete cloth package (bed and rails).
Wherever you get your cloth from make sure to SPECIFY that the rails should be cut for a carom table.
You should get 3 rail pieces, 2 for the long sides and 1 you cut in half for the ends.

 

[PenwaJo]

Yep, knew that 24 years ago, this time around I totally blanked. Only good thing, but not really is the cloth I bought was like $125, so now I am just debating whether to cut up the 24 year old bed cloth and try that first or buy the same pool table cloth I already have on the table, and cut that up.