Old Predator shaft question

C

ChampionsRepair

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, I was playing the other night and noticed an unusual sound when I hit a ball. I looked at the tip and all looked good. I took my next shot which was a 2/3rd table length draw shot and my Predator shaft broke. It was hit at probably 1/3rd of my break speed and prior to the shot before I had no indication that there was any problems.

The shaft is an original Predator 12 splice that I got around 17 years ago maybe more. I am including a photo for the experts on here. It appears that there is glue voids around the joint collar and a very large material void by design where the end of the butts pin would be when assembled.

I'm not complaining as most would think that 17 years is pretty good longevity for a piece of sporting goods equipment. I am mostly curious if anyone has come across this. And if the design has changed through the years enough that the large material void is no longer present on the newer models??
Image12192010130248.jpg
 
Oh that sucks! Out of curiosity, did you use that cue to break with? I can't imagine that a cue would do that from just playing, unless it was a defect in the manufacturing, or took abuse not related to playing. On a side note, I have a used 314 with a black collar sitting in my cue rack. I'll let it go cheap if you're interested.
 
4.0x3.48 said:
Oh that sucks! Out of curiosity, did you use that cue to break with? I can't imagine that a cue would do that from just playing, unless it was a defect in the manufacturing, or took abuse not related to playing. On a side note, I have a used 314 with a black collar sitting in my cue rack. I'll let it go cheap if you're interested.
Click to expand...

Never broke with it. Don't need another one as I still have 2 more that I bought at the same time. I just thought it was really odd after all of this time that it broke like that. And am curious if I do buy a newer one if it has the same design which honestly after seeing it split in two seems slightly undesirable.
 
ChampionsRepair said:
Ok, I was playing the other night and noticed an unusual sound when I hit a ball. I looked at the tip and all looked good. I took my next shot which was a 2/3rd table length draw shot and my Predator shaft broke. It was hit at probably 1/3rd of my break speed and prior to the shot before I had no indication that there was any problems.

The shaft is an original Predator 12 splice that I got around 17 years ago maybe more. I am including a photo for the experts on here. It appears that there is glue voids around the joint collar and a very large material void by design where the end of the butts pin would be when assembled.

I'm not complaining as most would think that 17 years is pretty good longevity for a piece of sporting goods equipment. I am mostly curious if anyone has come across this. And if the design has changed through the years enough that the large material void is no longer present on the newer models??
Image12192010130248.jpg
Click to expand...

Are you sure you posted the right pic?
There are no pie splices in the shaft you're showing.
What you are showing is a 1pc shaft. Spliced and laminated shafts don't break that way. The break in that shaft was due to bending the shaft which split/separated the grain.
Something ain't Kosher here.
 
KJ Cues said:
Are you sure you posted the right pic?
There are no pie splices in the shaft you're showing.
What you are showing is a 1pc shaft. Spliced and laminated shafts don't break that way. The break in that shaft was due to bending the shaft which split/separated the grain.
Something ain't Kosher here.
Click to expand...

Yep it is the right pic and there are pie splices, not a 1pc shaft. But it looks like they bored a hole and inserted a solid piece of maple in the middle. If you look at the picture (even though it is bad) you can see the uniform thickness piece that butts up against the collar. That is laminated pieces that extend the length of the shaft. This is an early Predator shaft no manufacturer markings at all. I bought it at the VNEA tournament in Vegas the year they came out however long ago that was, can't remember I'm old now. But I had to prepay and wait until the last day of the tournament to pick them up as they didn't bring very many to sell and wanted to make sure they had samples.
 
I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure how to respond here.
I've been working with Predator shafts for close to 14yrs and I've never seen the design that you're describing.
I will say that the suggestion of a manufacturing defect does raise a question with me. Why did said defect take 17yrs to show itself?

When I read the CM forums, it's generally to see 'what's new'.
When I see a question regarding a Predator shaft and given my experience with these shafts, I take a look to see if I might be able to offer assistance.
That's one of the ways that I can 'give back' for the things that I've learned from here.
When I saw the title of your thread: "Old Predator shaft question", I thought there might be a good chance that I could answer your question.
I will try to answer your questions as asked.
Unfortunately, this is going to be disturbingly easy.

Q-"I am mostly curious if anyone has come across this."
A-There may be someone, somewhere in the world that has but I haven't, not with a Predator shaft anyway.

Q-"And if the design has changed through the years enough that the large material void is no longer present on the newer models??"
A-I guess it's your pic (or my ancient eyes) but I'm not seeing a large material void. I'm not seeing an insert or wood threads either.
What I will say regarding Predator shafts though is that there has been a continual refinement in their products from day 1. Staying at the top of the list of L/D shaft manufacturers is about constant improvement and innovation. That improvement and innovation has given us the Z shaft & the FAT shaft, both off-shoots from the orig. 314.
Through the years, performance has been improved and small changes in design have occurred.
To address the issue of a void and I'm assuming you mean above the pin after the shaft is installed on the handle, consider that this is a manufactured shaft for a mass-market. Not all 'exposed pin' lengths are the same for every cue. Certainly not for customs and even some mass-produced cue's pin length will vary. The Predator shaft is designed to fit as many of them as is reasonably possible without modification or customization. Actually, this is common practice amongst most if not all of the L/D shaft manufacturers. There could be exceptions.

FWIW, this pictured shaft can be easily repaired and put back in service.
 
KJ Cues said:
I'll be honest with you, I'm not sure how to respond here.
I've been working with Predator shafts for close to 14yrs and I've never seen the design that you're describing.
I will say that the suggestion of a manufacturing defect does raise a question with me. Why did said defect take 17yrs to show itself?

When I read the CM forums, it's generally to see 'what's new'.
When I see a question regarding a Predator shaft and given my experience with these shafts, I take a look to see if I might be able to offer assistance.
That's one of the ways that I can 'give back' for the things that I've learned from here.
When I saw the title of your thread: "Old Predator shaft question", I thought there might be a good chance that I could answer your question.
I will try to answer your questions as asked.
Unfortunately, this is going to be disturbingly easy.

Q-"I am mostly curious if anyone has come across this."
A-There may be someone, somewhere in the world that has but I haven't, not with a Predator shaft anyway.

Q-"And if the design has changed through the years enough that the large material void is no longer present on the newer models??"
A-I guess it's your pic (or my ancient eyes) but I'm not seeing a large material void. I'm not seeing an insert or wood threads either.
What I will say regarding Predator shafts though is that there has been a continual refinement in their products from day 1. Staying at the top of the list of L/D shaft manufacturers is about constant improvement and innovation. That improvement and innovation has given us the Z shaft & the FAT shaft, both off-shoots from the orig. 314.
Through the years, performance has been improved and small changes in design have occurred.
To address the issue of a void and I'm assuming you mean above the pin after the shaft is installed on the handle, consider that this is a manufactured shaft for a mass-market. Not all 'exposed pin' lengths are the same for every cue. Certainly not for customs and even some mass-produced cue's pin length will vary. The Predator shaft is designed to fit as many of them as is reasonably possible without modification or customization. Actually, this is common practice amongst most if not all of the L/D shaft manufacturers. There could be exceptions.

FWIW, this pictured shaft can be easily repaired and put back in service.
Click to expand...

Thanks KJ, you answered my questions very well. If you haven't seen it then it probably was changed a lot sooner rather than later. The void that I am referring to is created by a sleeve styled insert that does not extend all of the way to the wooden plug in the center of the shaft. It created a void in the form of a circular channel less than 1/8" x 1/16". Radially around that void there is approximately 1/64" of the maple plug and then the splice pieces.

If you are curious PM me your shipping info, I'll send it to you after the new year. Not really interested in having it fixed, but as you are the Predator guy, maybe you should see it.

Thanks
 
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